制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E10

Part 4 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:32 a.m.

where a defense attorney and his investigator,
密谋对他们的当事人施压
um, plotted to pressure their client
逼他认罪而罪名是他...
to plead guilty to a case that he was--
即使他一直声明自己是清白的
in which he was expressing his innocence.
我认为那卷录像很可疑
That tape was somewhat disturbing, I think.
非常可疑
It was extraordinarily disturbing
迈克尔·欧凯利是一名经验丰富的调查员
and Michael O'Kelly is a seasoned investigator
我相信他对布兰登做的事给他造成了极大的创伤
and I believe what he did to Brendan Dassey traumatized him.
你第一个应该问自己的问题就是
So the first question you have to ask yourself is
你是否想在监狱中度过余生
do you want to spend the rest of your life in prison?
你的回答是"想"还是"不想"
So is that a yes or a no?
-我听不到 -不想
- I can't hear you. - No.
好
All right.
你想不想有天能出去成家立业
Do you want to get out and have a family someday?
那你就需要你配合我们
Well, that means you have to cooperate with me
我们一起合作
and help me work with you.
欧凯利用这些手段击溃了布兰登的心理防线
O'Kelly is using these tools to break Brendan down,
好让他再次供认
to get him to confess again.
他最终成功了
And he finally succeeds.
画下那张床和她被捆绑起来的场景
Draw a picture of the bed and how she was tied down.
画大点让我们能看清楚
But draw it big-sized so we can see it.
他干的第一件事就是
And the first thing he does is
拿起电♥话♥ 打给了莱恩·卡钦斯基
he picks up the phone and he calls Len Kachinsky.
喂是莱恩吗
Hi, Len?
你好莱恩我是迈克尔·欧凯利
Hi, Len, this is Mike O'Kelly.
我正和布兰登在一起
I'm with Brendan right now.
不错挺好的
Oh, quite well. Quite well.
非常好他给了我一份详细的供词
Very well. He's given a detailed statement.
然后他们安排布兰登
And then they arrange for Brendan
在第二天再次进行录像式问询
to be interrogated again the next day on tape
而问询员恰恰就是那位
by the very same police officers
曾经操纵过他的警官
who manipulated him before, um...
而莱恩·卡钦斯基并不在场
without Len Kachinsky being present.
你的律师告诉我你想要和我们聊聊
I was told by your attorney that you wanted to talk to us...
5月13日这些调查员
So on May 13th, these investigators,
满心想着他们将会有大收获
they think they're gonna get gold.
他们相信能够得到布兰登的认罪口供
They think they're gonna get a confession from Brendan
并改变整个案件走向
that is gonna be a game changer.
将会有更多的细节
It's gonna have even more details,
给他们带来更多新信息
it's gonna lead them to new information
布兰登也将会成为他们最重要的目击者
and that Brendan is now gonna be their star witness.
但事实上他们得到了什么什么都没有
But what do they get instead? They get crap.
你什么时候把她的手♥机♥
At what point did you put her cell phone
照相机钱包和其他物品丢进火堆的
and camera and purse and stuff in the burn barrel?
-我没有 -那是谁做的
- I didn't. - OK, who did?
可能是史蒂文
Probably Steven.
不对别说"可能" 谁做的
No, not "Probably." Who did?
如果你知道的话你要告诉我们
If you know, you need to tell me.
你当时在场
You were over there.
-是史蒂文 -你亲眼看到他做的
- Steven did. - Did you see him do it?
-是的 -不诚实点你到底有没有
- Yeah. - No, honestly, yes or no,
亲眼看到他这么做
did you see him do it?
不要说谎如果你看到了那很好
Don't lie about it. If you did, good.
没看到也没关系你有没有亲眼看到他做
If you didn't, good. Did you see him do that?
没有
No.
他很显然不知道该说什么
This is somebody who obviously doesn't know what to say.
显然他在说那些他认为
And is obviously saying whatever he thinks
劳拉·尼莱德
布兰登的裁后律师
青少年冤假错案中心
警官们和他的辩护律师想让他说的话
the officers and his defense attorneys want him to say.
后续的故事跟
And the resulting story is
他在3月1日说的大相径庭
widely different than what he said on March 1st.
事实上他说出了
What's happening is he's just generating
越来越多前后矛盾的说辞
more and more conflicting statements
基本上是把公诉方的案子全搅乱了
and essentially muddying up the State's case.
所以他们就想出来一个计划
So they come up with a plan
这个计划就是说服布兰登
and the plan is to persuade Brendan
当天晚上给他妈妈打电♥话♥
to call his mother later that evening
并跟她讲他在这桩罪行中干了什么
and to talk to her about his role in the offense.
你打算什么时候跟你妈妈讲这些事
When are you gonna tell your mom about this?
大概下次见到她的时候吧
Probably the next time I see her.
是因为你一直在对她说谎吗
'Cause you've lied to her so far, right?
你不觉得你应该打电♥话♥告诉她吗
Don't you think you should call her and tell her?
-应该 -那你打算什么时候打电♥话♥
- Yeah. - When you gonna do that?
可能今晚吧
Probably tonight.
你不觉得相较于从我这里
Don't you think she'd like to hear it
她会更希望从你口中听到这些事吧
coming from you rather than from me?
-那你会打这个电♥话♥吗 -会的
- So you gonna do that? - Yeah.
-什么时候打 -今晚就打
-When you gonna do that? -Tonight.
最好在我们告诉她之前把电♥话♥打了
Probably be a good idea, before we tell her.
当你跟布兰登建议
At the time that you had suggested to Brendan
马克·维格特警探
联合首席调查员
卡柳梅特县警局
他应该给他妈妈打电♥话♥的时候
that he call his mother,
你知道从监狱打出去的电♥话♥会被录音是吗
you knew that calls from the jail were recorded, didn't you?
-是的 -好的
- Yes. - OK.
你想让布兰登给他妈妈打电♥话♥
And you wanted Brendan to call his mother
托马斯·格拉吉蒂
布兰登的裁后律师
布卢姆法律诊所主管
把跟你说过的话再跟她重复一遍
and to repeat what he had told you.
-是吗 -是的出于若干不同的原因
- Is that right? - Yes, for several different reasons.
其中一个原因是你知道如果他打了电♥话♥
One of those reasons was that you knew that if he did that,
你们就可以在法庭上
that conversation could be introduced
用他们的对话来指控他是吗
against him in court. Is that right?
不我们当时并不是这么想的
No, it was not our thought at that time.
我们的想法是我们一直跟芭芭有接触
Our thought was we were dealing with Barb constantly.
她会站在我们这边她会帮助我们
She would be on our side, she'd be with us to help us
她也会跟我们生气都有可能
and then she would be mad at us, things like that.
我们希望芭芭跟我们合作
Um, we wanted Barb's cooperation.
这就是我们那么做的目的
That was the purpose of that.
如果这就是你们的目的
Did you suggest to Brendan that perhaps,
那你有没有建议布兰登
if that was your objective,
他可以把他妈妈叫到监狱来
that he might ask his mother
再告诉她事情的经过呢
to come to the jail to speak to her about that?
-我有没有让布兰登这么做 -是的
- Did I ask Brendan to do that? - Yeah.
-没有 -所以你的意思就是
- No. - Basically, what you said here was that
如果他当晚不给妈妈打电♥话♥ 你就要告诉她
unless he called her that night that you would tell her.
-是这样吗 -是的
- Isn't that right? - That's true. Yes.
所以布兰登就照做了
And so Brendan complied.
他回到他的牢房♥里
He went back to his cell
用监狱里被录音的电♥话♥给妈妈打了电♥话♥
and he called his mother on the recorded prison telephones.
他对她说
And he said to her,
"妈妈迈克尔·欧凯利
"Mom, Michael O'Kelly
和马克·维格特认为我在说谎
and Mark Wiegert think I'm lying.
他们告诉我如果我承认了罪行
They told me if I say I did this,
我就不用在监狱里终身服刑
I won't be doing life in prison.
甚至我还有机会出狱成家"
And I might even get out to have a family."
这些话不是从警方口中说出的
Those are things that didn't come from the police,
这些话是迈克尔·欧凯利告诉他的
those are things that Michael O'Kelly told him.
所以布兰登是在跟他妈妈说
So Brendan is explaining to his mother,
"我的辩护团队告诉我我应该认罪"
"My defense team is telling me I need to say I did this."
然后他又跟妈妈说道
And that's what he tells his mother.
他说 "妈妈我参与了部分罪行"
He says, "Mom, I did some of it."
她说 "布兰登
And she says, "Brendan,
你怎么可能参与部分罪行呢
how could you possibly have done some of this?
10月31日下午五点我看见你在家
I saw you at home at 5:00 p.m. on October 31st.
你不在史蒂文的家里你在自己家里"
You weren't over at Steven's. You were at home."
他又说 "我见到你之后又返回史蒂文家了"
And he says, "Oh, well, I went back to Steven's after I saw you."
这段对话很重要因为公诉方
That's important because the State used
陪审团听到了戴西的妈妈为海尔贝克案责备儿子
监狱电♥话♥的录音中塔迪克指责儿子的行为
在5月13日的审判中利用这段电♥话♥录音指控布兰登
that May 13th recorded telephone call against Brendan at trial.
如果没有卡钦斯基律师的参与
And it would've never come about, never come about,