制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E09

Part 2 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:32 a.m.

- I'm not a psychologist, that's correct. - OK.
当然也不是儿童心理学家
And certainly not a child psychologist.
我不是儿童心理学家没错
I am not a child psychologist, that's correct.
好你从未和这个年轻人接触过对吗
OK. You had never been around this young man before, had you?
-没有 -你也不知道
- No. - You had no idea what he acted like
他会以何种方式面对他的老师
when he was dealing with a teacher, for example.
不知道
No.
你也不知道他会以何种方式
You had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing with
面对像你这样的权威人士
a person like yourself, an authoritative figure.
-在我们谈话之前我的确不知道 -好
- Prior to our conversation, no. - OK.
你也不知道你面对的
You had no idea whether you were dealing with
是一个你通常定义为正常的青少年
what you might typically call an average teenager
还是一个存在某些障碍的青少年
or a teenager with any type of limitations.
这是否是一个合理的陈述
Is that a fair statement?
-是的 -好
- Yes. - OK.
并且你承认在你的报告中
And you acknowledge there's nothing at all
未记录他的任何行为
in your report about his demeanor.
是的
No.
所以当你描述他的行为时
So you're having to rely entirely upon your memory
-凭借的仅是你的个人记忆 -是的
- when you describe his demeanor. - Yes.
好这是十六个月前的事对吗
OK, and that's about 16 months ago, right?
-是的 -好
- Yes. - OK.
我觉得他做得很好非常棒
I think he's doing a damn good job. Really good job.
马克·维格特
联合首席调查员
卡柳梅特县警♥察♥局
请回忆2006年2月20日
Directing your attention to February 20th, 2006,
调查人员对埃弗里家庭的其他成员
what plans, if any, did you investigators have
汤姆·法♥伦♥
特别检察官
威斯康辛司法部助理检察长
进行问询时是否采取了某些计划
relative to speaking with other members of the Avery family?
为了能彻底调查
In order to do a thorough investigation,
我们必须重新询问任何有权进出
we needed to go back and talk to everybody who had access
-或者居住在废车场的人 -好
- or who lived on that property. - All right.
第一位接受
Now who was the first one
再次询问的家庭成员是谁
of the family members to be re-interviewed?
根据我的回忆应该可能是凯拉
By my recollection, it was probably Kayla, most likely.
凯拉是史蒂文的外甥女布兰登的表妹
她当时十四岁
凯拉的询问内容围绕史蒂文·埃弗里展开
The interview started out about Steve Avery
凯拉·埃弗里接受询问
主要包括她与史蒂文·埃弗里的关系
and Kayla was talking about her relationship with Steve Avery.
在询问即将结束之时
And just about at the end of that interview,
凯拉突然告诉我们
Kayla, out of the blue, basically came out and told us that, uh,
她有一位叫布兰登的表哥
she had a cousin by the name of Brendan
用她的话说这个布兰登最近行为反常
and that Brendan was, quote, "Acting up lately."
他会不受控制地开始哭泣
Brendan would just start crying uncontrollably.
她还告诉我们
She also told us that Brendan
她估计布兰登的体重掉了大约36斤
had lost what she estimated to be about 40 pounds.
根据这一信息你们决定采取何种行动
Now, based on this information, what did you decide to do?
我们决定我们需要再次对布兰登进行询问
We decided that, um, we needed to talk to Brendan again.
你们何时对他进行再次询问
And when did you talk to Brendan again?
2006年2月27日
On February 27th of 2006.
我和法斯宾德探员
Myself and Agent Fassbender
去了米希科特学校
had went to the Mishicot school system
在那里我们见到了戴西先生
and that's where we met with Mr. Dassey.
布兰登我们知道在万圣节那天
Brendan, we know that on Halloween,
你和他在一起帮他生了火堆
you were with him and helped him tend to a fire.
米希科特社区学校
你在火里看到了什么
What did you see in the fire?
一些树枝我看到了一个柜子和一些轮胎
Some branches, I saw a cabinet and some tires.
你看到了尸块吗
See any body parts?
那里有一些垃圾袋
Well, some garbage bags on there.
马克和我是警♥察♥没错
Mark and I, yeah, we're cops.
但是现在我不是警♥察♥
But I'm not right now.
我是一个和你同龄的孩子的父亲
I'm a father that has a kid your age, too.
而我最想做的
There's nothing I'd like
就是走到你身边给你一个拥抱
more than to come over and give you a hug
因为我知道你很痛苦
'cause I know you're hurting.
我相信你一定在火里看到了一些东西
'Cause I gotta believe you did see something in the fire.
和我们说说
Talk about it.
我发誓我不会丢下你不管的
I promise, I will not leave you high and dry.
我永远在你身边
I'll stand behind you.
布兰登那个燃烧坑不比这张桌子大
The burn pit, Brendan, was no bigger than this table.
我很难相信
I find it quite difficult
如果有人体部位在火堆里
to believe that if there was a body in there
你会看不到
that you wouldn't have seen something,
手脚头头发任何部位
a hand, a foot, a head, hair, something.
你看到了一些尸块告诉我们你看到了什么
You saw some body parts. Tell us what you saw.
-你可以告诉我们 -没关系
- It's OK to tell us. - It's OK.
告诉我们你看到了什么
Tell us what you saw.
脚趾
Toes.
此次询问之后我们联♥系♥了克拉兹地区检察官
After this interview, we contacted District Attorney Kratz
向他上报了我们在询问中得到的信息
to inform him of what we had learned from that interview.
克拉兹先生要求
Mr. Kratz requested that
我们以更先进的方式记录这一次询问
we memorialize this interview in a better fashion,
所以我们当时预约了
so at that point we made arrangements to
2006年2月27日
马克·维格特和汤姆·法斯宾德对布兰登·戴西进行问询
前往两河警局
go to Two Rivers Police Department
以在那里进行录像式询问
where there would be a videotape interview done.
当时被告的母亲芭芭·简达在哪
Where was the defendant's mother, Barb Janda, at that time?
我们此前和芭芭谈及了此次询问
We had spoke to Barb prior to doing the interview
并表示了如果她想
and indicated she had every right
她完全有权参与此次询问
to be in the interview if she wished to be.
当时她拒绝了
At that time she declined.
当我们进行询问时
She waited in a outer waiting area of the police department
她在警♥察♥局的等候区域等待
while we conducted the interview.
好那么现在
All right. Now at that--
这些事情发生以后当天的两位问询者
After those, um, two interviews that particular day,
当时是否将他认定为嫌犯
did you think that he was a suspect at that particular point?
当时那是布兰登第一次
Well, at that time, that's the first time
想象犯罪现场
Brendan places himself at the crime scene,
想象他身处火堆之前
places himself at the fire.
我当时仍然认为他是一个目击者
In my thinking at that point, he's still a witness,
一场恐怖事件的目击者
a witness to something horrific.
他告诉我们他在火中看见了尸块
He tells us that he sees body parts in a fire. I mean...
我看到了脚趾
所以我们当时认为
So, we're thinking he's a witness
他是那件案子的目击者
to something at that point, yeah.
布兰登·戴西
2006年2月27日
之前法斯宾德特别探员说
Earlier we heard from Special Agent Fassbender
你们把被告和他的母亲
that the defendant and his mother
安置在米希科特的福克斯希尔斯度假村
were put up at the Fox Hills Hotel in Mishicot.
福克斯希尔斯度假村
诸时皆宜
度假村入口
福克斯湾高尔夫球场
那是怎么回事
How did that come to pass?
首先任何执法部门最关注的就是安全
First and foremost, on any law enforcement's mind is safety.
我们的工作是要保护他们这是最基本的
I mean, our job is to protect people. That's bottom line.
因为他告诉了我们一些信息
Because of the information he told us,
如果当时
if there was somebody else
还有其他人与他们同住在埃弗里家
that lived out there on the Avery property
他们会发现这一点而他们可能就是涉案人员
that would've found out and may have also been involved,
我们是为他的安全考虑
we were worried for his safety,
那些人可能会找到他甚至伤害他
that they would somehow get to him and maybe harm him.
所以我们想出于安全考虑
So we thought, to be on the safe side,
我们应该把他安置在远离埃弗里家的地方
we needed to put him up somewhere off of that property.
你感觉被告当时是否已把他知道的
Did you have any feeling as to whether or not the defendant
全部情况都告诉了你们
had told you everything that he knew at that time?
我感觉他没有
My feeling was no, he didn't.
他实际知道的更多因为每跟他谈一次
He knew more 'cause every time we would talk to him
他透露的情况就会多一点再多一点
he'd give you a little bit more, give you a little bit more.
那你有没有安排再次询问被告
So then did you make arrangements to re-interview the defendant?
有是的那是在3月1日
We did. Yes. That would take us to March 1st.
2006年3月1日
马克·维格特和汤姆·法斯宾德调查员对布兰登·戴西进行询问
当时我们又联♥系♥了布兰登的母亲
Um, at that point we contacted Brendan's mother again,