制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E06

Part 7 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:30 a.m.

And this area,
整个被挖掘的区域有多大呢
the whole area that was excavated was about how big?
差不多是我身前这张桌子这么大吧
Probably roughly the size of this table I'm sitting at.
当你们拿着铲子到处铲的时候
And when you'd bring over a shovel here or there,
没有人在记录每一块可疑的骨头具体是在
nobody kept track of where exactly in that area
哪个地方被发现的是吧
any particular suspected bone may have been, right?
是的每一件从那块区域里采集到的东西
No. Everything that was collected
都被装在了一个盒子里
in this area was placed together in a box.
那个区域是1.2米乘1.5米的面♥积♥
This area being that four by five feet--
1.2米乘1.5米的灰堆
This four by five foot ash pile
都被一起放在了一个盒子里
was placed together in a box.
从我看到的东西来看
There was no systematic approach
斯科特·费尔格里夫医生
法医人类学家
在最初处理的时候并没有使用任何系统性的
to the collection of the evidence at first processing...
收集证据的方法
uh, from what I saw.
我知道在最初挖掘的时候
I know there was no grid imposed at that time
他们并没有划分网格
during the initial excavation.
他们告诉我
Um, I was informed
他们用铲子划分了区域
that shovels were used in order to do that,
但这并不是
and it wasn't, shall we say,
法医考古学的专业方法
a more forensic archaeological approach.
好除去吹毛求疵的因素方法有这么重要吗
OK, so other than nitpicking, why does this matter?
为什么方法很重要
Why does it matter?
很重要是因为正确的方法
Well, it matters as far as
可以告诉我们有关焚烧尸体
being able to tell things about the circumstances
周围环境的信息
surrounding the burn of the body.
尸体是在哪里被焚烧的
Where the body was burned.
有没有被移♥动♥过埋尸地点是不是焚烧地点
Was it moved? Is this the actual location or not?
依据这个案子里使用的恢复手段
And based on the recovery method that was used here,
你能就焚烧人体残骸的地点
are you able to offer an opinion
提出你的观点吗
about where these human remains were burned?
不我不能
No, I'm not.
你同意埃森博格医生的观点吗
Can you agree with Dr. Eisenberg's opinion that probably
她说埃弗里先生车♥库♥后面的那片区域
the area behind Mr. Avery's garage
很有可能就是焚烧尸体的原始地点
was the original burn site?
-我不同意 -为什么
- No. - Why not?
我参与过多起人体残骸在一处被焚烧
I've been involved in cases where human cremains
而后被转移到另一处的案子
have been burned in one location and moved to another location.
事实上在那些案子中
And in those cases, in fact, the actual location
骨头被转移到的地方
where the bones have been moved to,
往往那里就会找到最多的残骸
tends to be the location where most of the remains are.
我们争论的问题并不是
The dispute is not whether
尸体被焚烧以后残骸有没有被转移过
the bones were moved after they were burned.
确实有转移过
They were.
我认为任何理智的人都会同意这一点
I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that.
但是你要知道关键的问题是
But, you know, the key issue
公诉方认为尸体焚烧发生在史蒂文家后面
is the State says they were burned behind Steven's place
然后其中的一少部分残骸又被转移走了
and then a few of them were moved from there.
我们认为尸体焚烧很有可能发生在别处
We say they most likely were burned somewhere else.
有更合适的地方
There were better burn sites
可以把尸体焚化到那种程度
to cremate a body to that condition.
有人知道
And then somebody who knew
如果把这事推给史蒂文警♥察♥会很感兴趣
the cops would be very interested in pinning this on Steven,
所以他就把大部分的骨头
dumped most of the bones,
他很有可能认为他把全部的骨头
probably thought he was dumping all of the bones
都丢在了史蒂文家的焚烧坑那里
in a pile in Steven's burn area and then sort of sprink--
然后又把骨头散布在草丛里
you know, sprinkled them around in the grass
以确保有人会发现
so there'd be no missing them.
然后他又把焚烧桶放回原处
And then put the burn barrel back in its place,
却不知道一小部分骨头留在了
not knowing that a few of the bones remained in the
简达焚烧桶里的垃圾和灰烬里
muck and ash in the Janda burn barrel.
县警局交♥警♥队监狱
我绞尽脑汁地想啊想
I try to rack my brain and think and think,
"谁会对我做这种事"
"Who's doing this to me?"
我想不出来
I can't figure it out.
我还是毫无头绪
I still come up to a dead end.
跟之前的案子一样我就是想不通
Just like the last case, I couldn't figure it out.
联调局通缉名单
我不在通缉名单里
I'm not in there.
-现在几点了 -五点多了
- What time you got? - Five after.
已经五点多了
Five after already?
还好不是什么紧急的事情
Good thing it ain't an emergency.
吃这个对你的糖尿病不好
Hey, that's hard on your diabetes.
我不在乎
I don't care.
-你们现在可以进去了 -好的走吧
- You can go in now. - OK. Come on.
此处之后严禁饮食
州罪证鉴定室
威斯康星州麦迪逊
这是那辆丰田RAV4的后车厢
This is the rear cargo area of the Toyota RAV4.
在这里有多处血迹
In this area, there are numerous stains,
尼克·施塔尔克
血溅形态分♥析♥师
威斯康星州罪证鉴定室
它们都是
and they all are,
它们被称作是"接触转移型血迹"
basically they're described as contact transfer stains.
请描述一下你在这辆车的
Describe these stains that
这个部分所见到的血迹
you observed in this portion of the vehicle.
这处血迹就在这里
This stain right here, this is a...
它是带血的头发
just a classic example of
接触到干净的表面留下血迹的典型的例子
bloody hair transferring onto an unstained surface.
因为这里留下了足够多的血液
It is-- has enough blood there
所以你也能看出底部
that it also shows a bit of
有血流下来的痕迹
a flow pattern off of the bottom of that.
但你能看出
But you can see that
血迹在此处更浓而随着血迹的延伸
it is thicker here and as the length draws out,
最后变成了一个点
it comes to a point.
这也就表明是有带血的头发
This is indicative of bloody hair, transferring the--
把头发上的血转移到了汽车的表面上
blood from those-- from that head hair onto this surface.
坦白说 RAV4里面的血迹帮到了我们
The blood in the RAV4, frankly, helps us.
她的血迹
Her blood.
帮了我们大忙
Helps us a lot.
因为如果他在车♥库♥里杀害了她
Because if he killed her in the garage
或者在他家里或是附近的地方行凶
or killed her in his own house somewhere or nearby,
既然他们认为她的尸体是在那里被焚烧的
he doesn't need to use the RAV4 to carry her body
那他就不需要用这辆车
over to the burn pit
把她的尸体运到焚烧坑去
if that's where you're saying she was burned.
你会把她的尸体放在车里的唯一原因
The only reason you would put her body in the car
就是你要把尸体运到
is if you're gonna take it
比自家后院的焚烧坑更远的地方
somewhere farther than your own backyard burn pit.
通过进一步的证据我们认为
And that's further evidence, we think...
她的尸体不是在发现地点被焚烧的
that goes to show she was not burned where they found her.
而是在其他地方被杀害之后
That she was... wherever she was killed,
尸体被人放到了...
she was thrown in the back of the...
那辆RAV4的后车厢然后在别处焚烧的
the RAV4 and taken someplace to be burned.
卡柳梅特县法♥院♥
公诉方传唤斯科特·塔迪克出庭作证
The State will call Scott Tadych to the stand.
那天大部分时间那场火都在烧着
It was the fire that I remembered most of that day.
斯科特·塔迪克
芭芭的丈夫
好了我们稍微等一下
All right, let's back up just a little bit.
你能告诉陪审团那天下午你在做什么吗
Would you tell the jury what you did that afternoon, please?
那天早上我在我母亲家她刚做完手术
That morning I was up at my mother's, she had surgery.
然后我离开她家去树林里打猎
And then I left her and I went to the woods hunting.
我先去了我的拖车然后去打猎
I went to my trailer, then I went to the woods hunting.
你大概是几点钟进的树林里
About what time was it you got out into the woods?
大概三点钟
About 3:00.
在你去猎鹿的路上
On your way to deer hunting,
也就是大约三点之前
that would be just before 3:00 p.m.,
-你在路上看见什么人了吗 -是的
- did you observe anybody on the roadway? - Yes, I did.
我看到鲍比·戴西在147号♥公路上
I saw Bobby Dassey on highway 147.
埃弗里路
埃弗里废车场
我往西走他往东走
I was going west and he was going east.
那晚晚些时候你又回到简达家了吗
Later that night, did you return to the Janda property?
-是的 -你能告诉陪审团
- Yes, I did. - Could you tell the jury
-那时你看见了什么吗 -我看到一场大火
- what you saw at that time, please? - I saw a big fire.
你能告诉陪审团你在哪看见大火的吗
And can you tell the jury where you saw the fire, please?