制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E07

Part 8 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:31 a.m.

would be illegal, right?
-你同意我说的吗 -同意
- Would you agree with me? OK. - Yes, I would.
而且联调局的职责之一
And that one of the functions of the FBI was
就是查出这种坏警员对吧
to ferret out bad cops like that. Right?
-大致来讲那是我...是的 -那好
- Generally, that's what I... Yes. - OK.
大致来讲我是那么说的是的
Generally, that's what I said. Yes.
那好下面我要展示479号♥物证
OK. I'm gonna show you what's been marked as exhibit 479.
你能读一下第二页最上面的话吗
Would you read the sentence on the top of page two?
上面讲了请求你们前来协助的目的
It discusses the purpose of this request for your services.
"此请求旨在
"The purpose of this request is
"确认血样中存在EDTA
"to establish the presence of EDTA in the vial of blood,
"以反驳此血样
"thereby eliminating the allegation
"被用作栽赃证据的说法"
"that this vial was used to plant evidence."
好请告诉我在这份请求中
OK. Can you show me anywhere in there
什么地方提到
where that request says,
"我们还想要查明在马尼托沃克县
"Our purpose is also to find out if there might be
"是否有腐♥败♥警员存在的证据"
"any evidence that there's a corrupt cop in Manitowoc County"?
我没看出哪句话有这个意思
I don't see anything of that nature.
在威斯康星州
Is homicide of a citizen
杀人是联邦罪吗
in the State of Wisconsin a federal crime?
-不是先生 -好
- No, sir, it's not. - OK.
在威斯康星州
Is mutilation of a corpse
损毁尸体是联邦罪吗
in the State of Wisconsin a federal crime?
-不是 -好
- No. - OK.
所以你带联邦机构参与
So, the purpose of you getting your federal agency
这件触犯州法的案件调查
involved in this state crime
目的是反驳此血样
was to eliminate the allegation
被用作栽赃证据的说法
that this vial was used to plant evidence.
是吗
Isn't that true?
不是先生
No, sir.
如果能让我详细说明我很乐意解释
If I can elaborate, I'd be happy to explain.
你可以稍后再详细说明先生
You can elaborate later, sir.
在特瑞莎·海尔贝克车里
You only tested three swabs
发现的若干血迹中
that were reported to have been found
你们只检测了三处取样对吧
in the Teresa Halbach vehicle, right?
是的
That's correct.
你知道除这三处外
Do you know how many other stains
在那辆车里还找到了多少处血迹吗
were also found in that vehicle?
-我不知道 -你的看法是
- No, I don't. - Your opinion that
海尔贝克车里的取样中没有EDTA
there's no EDTA in the swabs from the Halbach vehicle
其实只限于
then is limited to the three swabs
他们提交给你的这三处取样对吧
that were presented to you, isn't that right?
你能再说一次吗
Could you repeat that?
我认为你发表的看法所涵盖的范围
You expressed an opinion a little more broadly
可能比你的本意更宽
than perhaps you intended to, I believe,
你的看法是
which was that the blood stains
海尔贝克车里的血迹
in the Halbach vehicle could not have
不可能来自你检测的紫盖试管对吧
come from the purple vial that you tested. Right?
是的
That's correct.
但你其实说的是
But you're actually referring
不存在于你检测的那三处血迹中
only to the three stain swabs that you tested.
对吧
Correct?
不我就是原始证词里的那个意思
No, I believe my original testimony is what I meant.
你的意思是即使你没有检测过
Are you telling me right now that even though you never tested
车里其他地方发现的
three other swabs of separate blood stains
另外三处血迹
found elsewhere in the RAV4 vehicle,
你还是愿意给出专业意见说
that you're willing to express an opinion
那三处血迹里也都不含EDTA吗
that none of those three swabs have EDTA either?
我认为
I believe that to be true
在科学确定性的合理范围内是这样的
within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, yes.
好我就是想看看你要撑到什么时候
OK. Just wanted to know how far you were willing to go.
如果你要检测是否存在EDTA
The issue with this procedure
这个程序中你该关注的问题
is not whether or not it's a valid result if you got--
吉妮·阿尔维祖
实验室数据质量审核员
不是你检测出的结果是否有效
if you were actually detecting EDTA.
如果结果表明
This is a good method--
你检测和鉴定出了EDTA
If the results end up that you detect EDTA
那这个方法是很不错的
and you identify EDTA,
这是个能确定
that's a good indication
样本中有EDTA存在的好办法
that EDTA was present in that sample.
但现在的问题在于
The problem really occurs
血迹中没有检测出EDTA
when EDTA is not detected in a blood stain.
这种情况下的问题就是利用这种方法
And the problem in that regard is, from this method,
我无法判断是单纯没有检测出来
I don't know whether that's simply because they didn't detect it
还是确实就没有EDTA
or because it wasn't there.
利用这个方法我无法分辨是哪种原因
I can't tell the difference between those two for this method.
我不知道这种方法适用的检测范围
I don't know really what their method detection limit is.
所以我不知道是他们没有发现
So I don't know whether they didn't see it
还是真的没有
or it wasn't there.
通过这堆资料里可以查到的数据
And looking at the data that is available in this stack,
还有之前所做的有效性测试等等
the validation tests that were done and those sorts of things,
有没有迹象表明联调局已经确定
is there any indication that the FBI ever found out
这类检测的实际检测范围
what the actual detection limit or method detection limit
或方法检测范围
would be for this kind of a test?
没有通过这些数据看不出来
No, there's no such indication in these data.
所以通过这些数据你能否给出专业意见
And so from this data, can you express any opinion
判断勒博先生检测的这三处血迹
about whether the three stains examined by Mr. LeBeau
是否可能来自同样经过检测的
could have come from the blood sample,
血液试管Q-49中的血样
the blood tube Q-49 that was also examined?
这些血液取样很有可能
It's quite possible that those blood swabs
来自埃弗里先生的血液试管
could've come from Mr. Avery's blood tube,
只是实验室无法检测出来
but simply not been detectable by the laboratory.
所以即使经过这项检测
So even having gone through this test,
RAV4里那三处血迹中仍可能含有或有过EDTA
is it possible that EDTA is or was in those three RAV4 stains?
是的
Yes.
那勒博先生
What about the three swabs
没有检测过的另外三处取样呢
from the RAV that were not tested by Mr. LeBeau?
能得出什么结论吗
Can any conclusion be drawn on that?
我是化学分♥析♥师
I'm an analytical chemist.
我的工作不是去猜测样品中有什么
I'm not in the business of just guessing what's in samples.
要经过检测才能确定里面有什么
We have to test samples to decide what's in them.
那你能否得出这样的结论
So, can you conclude then
RAV4里找到的由联调局检测过的几处血迹中
that any of the RAV4 stains that were examined by the FBI
你能完全确定其中一处或多处血迹
could not have come from the blood tube
绝不可能来自埃弗里先生的血样试管
that contained Mr. Avery's blood?
我无法得出这样的结论
I can't conclude that.
如果能在主要争议点上说服他们
If we can convince them on the major points,
那么照《陪审团指南》说的
then as long as there is a "reasonable hypothesis"
只要有"合理假设"
as the jury instruction says,
那么我想我们就有机会说服他们
then I think we've got a chance to convince them.
这一切当然是假设这十二个人
All this, of course, assumes that we end up with 12 people
完全没有偏见公正中立毕竟...
who really are unbiased and impartial, despite, you know,
-他们看了几个月的媒体报道 -对
- the months of publicity that they've had. - Right.
而且你知道吗
And you know?
这真的很考验人性
That's asking a lot of human beings.
这起案子你知道
This case, you know,
如果那些人做不到公正
could've been a futile exercise for the last month
那我们上个月的努力就白费了
if we ended up with people that can't do that.
可是这一切都无从而知
And there's just no way of knowing.
公诉方结束提交证据后辩方动议撤销非法拘禁指控
这是布兰登被捕后新增的三项指控中仅剩的一项
这里说的非法拘禁是指布兰登·戴西说出
The false imprisonment count here
那些没有根据不准确且未经证实的言论后
is the last vestige of the unsupported, inaccurate,
增加的指控中剩下的最后一项
uncorroborated claims of Brendan Dassey
警员们将他所说的话播送出去
that were broadcast by agents of the State
任何人打开电视都能看到
to everyone who had a TV turned on,
这损害了公平审判的权利
that threatened the right to a fair trial,
影响了从案件审判地
that threatened the right to have a jury drawn
召集陪审团的权利
from the venue in which this crime was charged,
任何人听到这样的描述
and that curled the hair of anyone
都会感到毛骨悚然
who listened to the description
一个女人赤身裸体地被拷在床上