制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E09

Part 3 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:32 a.m.

告诉她我们想带布兰登
told her that we would like to take Brendan
来马尼托沃克县警局
to the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department
对布兰登做一个录像询问
so we could do a videotaped interview of Brendan
看他还知道别的什么看到了什么
to see what else he maybe had known, see what else maybe he saw.
很明显他没有把知道的所有情况都告诉我们
It was obvious that he knew more than he was telling us.
我们快速地再过一次
I just wanted to just go over this real quick again.
你记得这些权利吧
You remember these rights?
我之前给你读过的米兰达权利
Your Miranda rights that I read you?
-记得 -你仍然愿意跟我们谈吗
- Yeah. - You still want to talk to us?
-愿意 -好的我就确认一下
- Yeah. - OK. Just wanted to make sure of that.
布兰登希望你能放松
Brendan, I want you to relax.
公诉方给陪审团播放了3月1日录像的前3小时24分钟
-布兰登给你 -谢谢
- Brendan? There you go. - Thank you.
不客气
You're welcome.
法官大人我们已经达成一致
Your Honor, I believe we have agreed that
剩下的这部分对被告的询问
the remainder of the discussion does not contain pertinent...
跟案件无关
questioning of the defendant,
我想我们都同意在这个点停放录像带
and I think we agreed to stop the tape at this particular point.
辩方是这样吗
To the Defense, is that true?
-是的法官大人 -那好
- It is, Your Honor. - All right.
陪审团没有看到录像的后1小时38分钟
其中有布兰登告诉他母亲调查员"把我弄糊涂了"
今天的录像带让我看到
The videotapes today... it just shows me that...
理查德·马♥勒♥
埃弗里案中途退出的陪审员
-他没有... -警♥察♥想要
- He wasn't-- -...the police were trying
让他编一个故事
to get him to make up a story.
-因为是针对他 -就是...
- 'Cause it's personal. - You know,
一来二去就变成那样了
it just comes across that way.
他跟我说了无数次他对她什么也没有做
Well, he told me umpteen times that he didn't do nothing to her.
-而且也没有DNA证据 -他还是处♥男♥呢
- And there's no DNA evidence. - That he's still a virgin.
是啊我知道
Yeah, I know.
没有DNA证据表明他当时在拖车里
There's no DNA evidence to prove that he was in the trailer,
也没有证据表明她去过史蒂文的拖车
there's no evidence of hers in that, in Steven's trailer.
-是啊 -没有DNA证据
- Right. - There's no DNA evidence.
这就是我最在意的如果她...
And that was my biggest thing. If she--
如果真像布兰登说的那样
If it happened as Brendan supposedly said it did,
那里肯定有DNA证据血液之类的
there would've been DNA evidence in there. Blood, something.
就像今天马克·维格特在证人席上
That's just like Mark Wiegert on the stand today.
他说...
He said that...
他说我拒绝跟布兰登一起进去
that I declined to go in with Brendan.
其实我想跟布兰登一起进去
I wanted to go in with Brendan.
是他们不让
They wouldn't let me.
所以他也在证人席上说谎
So he's lying up on the stand too.
我们今天看的录像带里
Do you know how many times
你知道你和法斯宾德
either you or Agent Fassbender on March 1st,
在3月1日对布兰登暗示过
the video one that we all watched today...
或明说过多少次他是个骗子
suggested to Brendan or told Brendan that he was a liar?
不我不知道多少次
No. I don't know how many times.
如果我说在询问过程中
Would it surprise you that it was in excess of 75 times
你和法斯宾德对布兰登迂回暗示或直接陈述
during the course of the interview that either you or Fassbender
超过75次说他是个骗子
said something to him suggesting or directly stating to him,
你会惊讶吗
that he was a liar?
我们确实说过几次
Several times we told him
我们不相信他说的是的
we did not believe what he was telling us. Yes.
你知道他有多少次
Do you know how many times after
在你们说他是个骗子后
he was told that he was a liar
更改了回答吗
that he changed his answer?
不我不知道有多少次
No. I don't know how many times.
请看中间那段
Take a look at that middle paragraph.
"法斯宾德正在鼓励布兰登
"Fassbender is encouraging Brendan
说点什么或许会让布兰登显得像坏人的话
to say things that might make Brendan look a little bad...
以让别人相信他"
in order for him to be believed."
他告诉他 "告诉我们全部真♥相♥
He tells him "To tell the whole truth,
什么也别遗漏也不能瞎编"
don't leave anything out, don't make anything up."
但事实上他说的是
But it was in fact said to him,
"这可能会让你看起来像坏人
"It might make you look a little bad
"或者显得你涉案的程度
"or make you look like you were more involved
比你想要的更深
than you want to be.
"虽然这么做很难但也让我们可以这么说
"It's hard to do, but it's good from the vantage point to say,
"'无疑你说的是真话'"
"'Hey, there's no doubt you're telling the truth.'"
是的为了打消他的顾虑
Yes, that's what was said.
我们确实这么说过
Part of breaking down those barriers.
但这难道不是在怂恿他说点什么
But doesn't that encourage him to say something
-而不管是真是假吗 -不是
- irregardless of whether it's true or not? - No.
因为一个权威机构的人正告诉他
Because someone in a position of authority is telling him that,
"如果你说点对自己不利的话
"If you say something that doesn't help you,
我们可能就会相信你"
then we might believe you."
不是我不是这么理解
No, I wouldn't characterize it that way.
芝加哥那个叫里德的机构
The police are actually taught a technique
雷· 埃德尔斯坦及马克·福莱根
布兰登的指定律师
其实教了警♥察♥一种技巧
from this org-- this outfit out of Chicago, Reid.
教警方如何诱供而不是得到真♥相♥
And they're taught to elicit confessions, not get to the truth.
他们...警方认为这是一回事
They-- The police believe it's the same thing.
供认和真♥相♥是一回事
Confession and truth are the same thing.
但其实不是真♥相♥...是真实发生过的
But it's not. The truth... is what happened.
而供认不一定真的发生过
A confession isn't necessarily what happened.
在询问过程当中你指控他
You accused him during the course of this interview
枪击了特瑞莎是吧
of shooting Teresa, correct?
是的每次我们这么说的时候他都不承认
Yep, and which he was able to resist every time we accused him.
而真实的情况是
Well, the truth of the matter is...
你不确定那是否正确
you don't know if it's right
也不确定那否错误是吗
and you don't know if it's wrong, do you?
-关于他是否枪击了特瑞莎 -对
- Whether or not he shot Teresa? - Correct.
我知道她遭到枪击时他有在场
I know he was there when she was shot.
至于是不是他开枪
Whether he actually pulled the trigger--
我们先到此为止
Well, let me stop you there.
你之所以知道他在场是因为他告诉你的对吗
You know he was there because he told you that, right?
还有因为证据
And because of the evidence.
手铐子弹弹壳铲子座椅
The cuffs, the bullets, the shells, the shovels, the seat,
州政♥府♥所陈列于此的所有证物
everything that the government's paraded in here...
没有一样上面有指纹或DNA
none of these items have fingerprints, DNA,
或任何其他科学证据可以把布兰登·戴西
or any other scientific evidence connecting Brendan Dassey
与特瑞莎·海尔贝克的死亡连结在一起是不是
to the death of Teresa Halbach, yes or no?
正确他们有五天时间可以清理
That's correct. They had five days to clean up.
我认为维格特调查员做得非常好
I thought Investigator Wiegert did a tremendous job.
我们一直以来都很赞扬警方
I mean, we've been praising the police all along.
我们都爱戴警♥察♥
Uh... We-- we love the police.
麦克·海尔贝克
特瑞莎的弟弟
另一家人很明显并不是这么想的
The other family obviously doesn't, so...
但我们很感激警♥察♥
But, yeah, we owe a lot to them
他们为我们家和为特瑞莎
for their-- the work that they've done
所做的付出
for my family and for Teresa.
他以前从没闯祸过从来没有
He never got into trouble before. At all.
一直都是个好孩子
He was always a good kid.
甚至学校都希望他能够回去上学
Even his school wants him to come back to school.
我儿子总是告诉我
And my son always tells me,
"都是马克的错都是马克的错"
"Blame it on Mark. Blame it on Mark."
而我要怪罪的人就是他
And that's who I'm blaming.
马克·维格特警探
联合首席调查员
卡柳梅特县警局
你是否曾经再次询问了凯拉·埃弗里
Did there come a time where you re-interviewed Kayla Avery?
是的就在布兰登被逮捕不久后
We did. Um, shortly after Brendan was arrested, actually.
二月
询问凯拉·埃弗里
我想是在2006年3月7日
I believe it was March 7th of 2006.
再次询问凯拉·埃弗里
那时候凯拉告诉了我们不少事
Kayla came out and told us quite a few things at that point.
基本上她表示布兰登告诉了她
Basically she indicated to us that, um, Brendan had told Kayla
他去信箱拿信之后去了
that he had went and got the mail and went over to...
史蒂文·埃弗里家
Steven Avery's residence.
接着他进入住♥宅♥
And went into the residence
看到特瑞莎·海尔贝克
and observed Teresa Halbach
被绑在史蒂文·埃弗里的卧房♥内
pinned up in Steve Avery's bedroom.
凯拉接着告诉我们布兰登描述了