制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E05

Part 4 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:30 a.m.

辩方无效审判动议
鲍比·戴西的询问书面报告
in which that statement is recited.
我们有一份和迈克尔·奥兹门森的问询报告
We do have a report of a contact with a Michael Osmundson.
"迈克尔表示他知道史蒂文是最后几个
"Michael indicated he was aware Steven was one of the last people
见过那个失踪的女孩的人之一
to see the missing girl
他开玩笑似的问史蒂文是不是史蒂文
and jokingly asked Steven if Steven had her,
把失踪的女孩关在衣柜里了
the missing girl, in a closet.
而这时史蒂文问迈克尔愿不愿意
At this point, Steven asked Michael if Michael wanted to quote
原话是"帮忙埋了那具尸体"
'help bury the body' closed quote.
然后他们一起笑了"
And they laughed about this together."
这段对话显然是在11月10日星期四进行的
This conversation clearly is placed on Thursday, November 10.
现在出现了另一名证人
I now have a different witness
这些话从未出自他口
to whom this statement has never been attributed,
现在他却指认说这些话是他在11月3日说的
identifying the statement as having been made on November 3.
这意味着对话发生在
The implication is that this may have been
特瑞莎·海尔贝克被确定为失踪之前
before Teresa Halbach even is reported missing.
我接下来要说的是这个陪审团今天听到了
What I'm left with is this jury having heard testimony
来自埃弗里先生的旁系血亲
from the first blood relative of Mr. Avery to testify here,
他的外甥兼隔壁邻居的证词
his nephew and next-door neighbor,
证词相当于指认了一项罪行
that amounts to a confession of a crime.
我们没办法把这件事从陪审团的脑海中消除
There is no way to unwind this from the jury's mind.
它产生了很严重的不公正的偏见影响
It has enormous unfair prejudicial impact.
如果除了无效审判还有其他方法可以补救
If there were a remedy short of a mistrial,
我也不确定会不会有
and I don't know that there is,
那可能就是法庭指示陪审团
it would be something like the court instructing the jury
因为鲍比·戴西在这时候做了伪证
that it may disregard as false all of Bobby Dassey's testimony
所以他所有的证词都应该被看做是伪证
because of his false testimony on this point.
你准备好了吗你准备好了吗
Are you ready? Are you ready?
我早就准备好了请问吧
I'm always ready. Go ahead.
在你问鲍比问题的时候
You said when you asked the question of Bobby
你说那段对话发生在11月3日
that the conversation was on November 3rd,
但是之后在你提到
but later you said in reference
迈克·奥兹门森的警方记录时
to the police report on Mike Osmundson
你又说他说那段对话发生在11月10日
that he said the conversation was November 10th.
你要问什么问题
Was there a question there?
你能明确一下吗
Can you clarify that?
你从哪里获得的11月3日这个日期
Where'd you get the date November 3rd?
我没办法明确这一点
I can't clarify that.
今天鲍比·戴西的证词
The testimony from Bobby Dassey today,
是法庭上提出的证据
that's the in-court evidence.
他指出那段对话发生在11月3日
He, uh, identified that conversation as happening on the 3rd.
不是你指出的你说 "在11月3日那天
No, you identified it. You said "On November 3rd,
那天应该是星期四
I believe it was a Thursday,
你还记得跟史蒂文·埃弗里
do you recall a conversation
进行过一场有关一具尸体的对话吗"
with Steven Avery about a body?"
-好 -所以是你把时间确定为11月3日的
-All right. -So you established it as November 3rd
我想知道你从哪里...
and I'm wondering where--
消息来源于一份我们不知道的报告吗
Did that come from a report we don't know about?
消息来源于准备期间的鲍比·戴西
That came from preparation of, uh, Bobby Dassey.
我在传唤证人之前会先和他交流一下
I talk to my witnesses before I call--
警方的报告
The police reports,
是直接来源于这份迈克对警方的陈词吗
were they strictly from this Mike's statements to police
还是鲍比·戴西把这些告诉警方的
or did Bobby Dassey actually tell...
因为今天法庭上的情形看来
'Cause it sounded like in court that
似乎鲍比·戴西从来没有跟探员提到过
Bobby Dassey never mentioned this conversation
那段对话或那些玩笑
or these jokes with investigators,
只有迈克提到过
that was only Mike that mentioned them.
我理解你们都对这个小细节感到非常兴奋
I understand that you're all very excited about this one piece.
请不要忘记了鲍比·戴西今天来作证的真正原因
Please don't forget the real reason that Bobby testified today.
确立时间线以及确定特瑞莎·海尔贝克
Establishing the timeline and establishing that Teresa Halbach
在被谋杀之前曾走进了埃弗里先生的房♥子
walked towards Mr. Avery's house before she was murdered.
你为什么不把迈克放进目击证人的名单并传唤他呢
Why didn't you put Mike on the witness list and call him?
而是回避了...
Instead of avoid--
这样你就完全可以回避了这个问题了
So that you could have avoided this entire issue?
我并不认为这样做有问题
I didn't think this was an issue.
我只是传唤了我认为能够证实
I get to call my witnesses
公诉方观点的证人
that I think is gonna prove the State's case.
鲍比·戴西是审判中很重要的一位证人
Bobby Dassey was a central figure in this trial
他的作用是建立时间线
to establish again the timeline
并确定谁是最后一个见过她的人
and to establish the last person to see her.
至少从公诉方的观点来说这件事过去不是
This was not and is not, at least from the State's perspective,
现在也不是本案的重点
a central part of this case at all.
这将是一次非常简短的见面
This will be very short.
但如果你们你们有任何问题
But if you-- If you have questions,
我们可以用两三分钟的时间来回答
we'll take two or three minutes.
到底发生了什么
What the hell happened?
你还真是...非常直接
That's... cutting right to it.
我们时间很紧所以...
Well, we're on deadline, so...
给我一点提示要说哪方面的事
Give me a little direction on--
这会加重控方行为不当的程度吗
Does this rise to the level of prosecutorial misconduct?
我我不会发表针对任何人的评论
I'm-- No, I'm not gonna comment on anybody.
我并不想指责任何人
I'm not here to throw stones.
但是那个评论那个笑话的来源
But the comment-- the reference to the joke,
并不是戴西告诉警方那个玩笑的
it wasn't Dassey who told police about the joke,
而是第三方告诉了警方那个玩笑
it was the third party who told police about the joke.
是的
That's right.
所以事实上戴西从来没有告诉过警探
So Dassey never actually told a detective,
"这就是我听到的内容"
"This is what I heard."
他并没有和警探说过他今天在法庭上说的话
He didn't say what he said in court today to a detective.
基于现在我们所有的书面报告你说得非常正确
So far as the written reports we have, you are exactly correct.
那肯为什么会问出那样的问题
How can Ken even ask that question then?
肯怎么会那么问呢
How can Ken ask that?
威利斯法官否决了辩方无效审判的动议
法官没有给陪审团任何关于鲍比证词的指示
太可怕了不忍♥直视
That's horrible to look at.
那都不是实话
That stuff isn't even the truth.
他这么说实在太令人难受了
You don't feel too good when he says stuff like that.
我们一直以为他喜欢史蒂文但似乎不是那样
We always thought he liked Steven, but it doesn't sound like it.
我们很担心陪审团会认为
We're really worried that the jury might think,
"我们不知道也说不清到底是谁干的
"You know, can we really acquit this man
我们真的可以
when we don't know--
就这样判他无罪吗"
We can't tell them who we think did it?"
从情理上讲这真的是最艰难的决定
That's gonna be, on a human level, the hardest thing, I think.
而法官其实也让我们有点束手无策
And the judge has really tied our hands on that.
在关于第三方责任的审前听证会上
威利斯法官规定辩护律师
不得向陪审团提出除布兰登以外的嫌疑人
我们不能把嫌疑指向其他人
We can't point the finger at other suspects.
我们能争论的只有
All we're gonna be able to argue is
排除这条或那条线索
failure to follow this lead and that lead
这在一定程度上将嫌疑指向了其他人
which, in a way, points at other suspects,
但是有很多线索如果他们一开始能查下去
but there's a lot of leads that if they had been followed up,
可能就能查到动机机会和方法
might have led to motive, opportunity and access
甚至查到与案子的直接联♥系♥
and a direct connection to the crime.
但在这样的情况下由于这样的狭隘之见
But in a case like this, where there's such tunnel vision,
这条路你走不了太远
you can't go too far down that road
因为他们都没有好好调查过
because they didn't go very far down the road.
当我们开始着手调查的时候线索已经断了
And by the time we're on the case, the trail's cold.
或者已经被人篡改过了
Or it's been altered.
我妈妈打过电♥话♥给我询问特瑞莎的事
My mom had called me, um,
麦克·海尔贝克
特瑞莎的弟弟
就在那个周四 11月3号♥的下午
that Thursday, November 3rd, that afternoon about Teresa
她说她试着给特瑞莎打电♥话♥
and said that she had tried calling her
而特瑞莎的语♥音♥信箱满了
and Teresa's inbox was full.
所以我觉得当时我很好奇的是...
So, um, I guess what I was interested in was, um...
为什么它是满的或者说第一条新信息
why it was full or when the first new message was, you know,
是什么时候收到的
received in her inbox.
我...我感觉自己或许知道她语♥音♥信箱的密♥码♥
I... I had a feeling that I might know her voicemail password
所以我接通了她的语♥音♥信箱
and so, you know, I-- that's why I did call her voicemail.
那天你有没有听信箱里的某些信息
Did you listen to at least some of those messages that day?
我听了
I did.
是听了全部的吗
Did you listen to all of 'em?
-应该是全部的 -好
- I believe that I did. - OK.