制造杀人犯（2015）

Making a Murderer S01E06

Part 8 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:30 a.m.

-就在那 -你能估算下
- Right there. - Are you able to estimate
简达/戴西家
史蒂文·埃弗里家
你在7点45分左右看到大火时
how high or how tall the flames were
火焰大概有多高吗
as you were watching there about 7:45?
差不多和车♥库♥一样高了
They were almost as tall as the garage.
-那么... -可能有两三米高我说不准
- All right. So... - Eight, ten feet. I don't know.
大概三米吧火焰有三米那么高
Ten feet, maybe. Ten feet tall is what the flames were.
-是场大火 -火势确实很大
- Big fire. - It's a big fire.
好
All right.
你有看见史蒂文·埃弗里站在大火附近吗
Did you see Steven Avery standing next to or near that fire?
是的看见了
Yes, I did.
你记得2005年10月31日吧
You remember October 31, 2005
你那天一整天没去上班
because you skipped work entirely that day.
我没有翘班
I didn't skip work.
我那天请了假去陪我母亲
I took vacation that day to go to be with my mother.
除了你母亲
Other than your mother,
在你和鲍比·戴西在147号♥公路
who would've seen you on October 31st
驾车相遇之前
before you say Bobby Dassey saw you
还有谁在10月31日见过你
as the two of you drive past one another on highway 147?
没人我直接从医院去了我的拖车
Nobody. Just... I went from the hospital to my trailer.
你到家之后
You get home,
迅速准备好出发去猎鹿
you very quickly get ready to go off deer hunting.
是的
Yes.
去打猎的路上你看见了鲍比·戴西
On your way to hunting is when you see Bobby Dassey.
是的
Correct.
你从医院回到家
And you got home from the hospital
大约是那天下午三点十五分
at about 3:15 that afternoon,
-是吗 -不是
- you say, to your home? - No.
我在两点半到两点三刻左右从医院回到家
I got home from the hospital between 2:30 and quarter to 3:00.
你现在是这样认为的对吗
And that's your recollection today,
在事发十五十六个月之后
oh, 15, 16 months after the events?
-是的 -好的
- Yes. - All right.
你还记不记得你与一些
Do you remember talking to a
执法人员谈论过此事
couple of law enforcement officers about this
早在...
back on, uh...
2005年11月29日
November 29, 2005?
是的
Yes.
那你还记不记得那时你是怎么告诉他们
And do you remember what you told them then
你在几点从医院回到家的
about when you got home from the hospital?
不我不记得了
No, I don't recall.
我将向你展示第256号♥证物
I'll show you exhibit 356,
这是一份刑事调查科的记录
which is a Division of Criminal Investigation report.
其中第二段可能对我们帮助最大
The second paragraph may be the most helpful,
你可以自己读一下
which you're welcome to read to yourself,
其中的任何段落或全文
any or all of that report.
-这帮你想起来什么了吗 -是的
- Did that help refresh your recollection? - Yeah, it did.
你是否于11月29日
Did you tell the police
告诉警♥察♥你那天是在3点15分回到家中
on November 29 that you arrived home at 3:15?
我可能这么说了
I may have.
你是记得还是不记得
Well, do you remember telling them that or not?
不我不记得跟他们这样说过
No, I don't remember telling them that.
时间过去太久了
It's been such a long time.
你是否认为或许你在2005年11月29日时的
Do you think maybe your recollection back on November 29, 2005,
记忆要比在今天更清晰一点
was maybe a little better than it is today?
是的
Yeah.
当时离事发仅过去一个月
It was just one month after the events in question at that point.
没错
Right.
你是否也在11月29日那天告诉警♥察♥
Was November 29 also the day that you told the police
火焰不到一米高
that the flames were three feet high?
肯定是这样
Must have.
并且...
And...
在我们刚才提到的你与迪德灵调查员
sometime around the time you talked to Investigator Dedering
谈话的那几天
on the occasion we just described,
你是否试图将一把戴西的0.22口径的手♥枪♥
were you trying to sell one of the Dassey boys' .22s
卖♥♥给一位名叫杰·马蒂斯的同事
to a man named Jay Mathis at work?
-没有 -你没有
- No. - You weren't?
鲍比·戴西
布兰登的哥哥
我记得你说过万圣节那天
You had, I think, said that on Halloween
你看到海尔贝克女士走向你史蒂文舅舅的拖车
you see Ms. Halbach walking towards your Uncle Steven's trailer?
是的
Yes.
在那之后没多久
Not too long after that,
你就和你弟弟离开屋子去打猎了
you leave the house with your bow to go hunting.
是的
Yes.
在你开车离开到去猎鹿这期间
As you drove off then to go deer hunting,
大概几点两点三刻到三点
it's what, 2:45 or 3:00,
-在这段时间内吗 -是的
- somewhere in that range? - Yes.
-你去打猎的时候有人见到你吗 -有
- Anybody see you as you're going hunting? - Yes.
-谁 -斯科特·塔迪克
- Who? - Scott Tadych.
-斯科特·塔迪克吗 -是的
- Scott Tadych? - Yes.
好的你对迪德灵调查员说过
OK. What you told Investigator Dedering
塔迪克先生能够
is that Mr. Tadych would be
精确地证实他是在什么时候见到你的
able to verify precisely what time he had seen you?
-是的 -你为什么那么认为
- Yes. - Why did you think that?
他在车里可能看过表
Maybe he looked at his clock in his truck.
你是否和塔迪克先生交流过
Had you talked with Mr. Tadych about whether he could
-他是否能准确地认出你这件事 -没有
- verify precisely when he saw you? - No.
所以你只是希望并觉得他会吗
You were just hoping or guessing that maybe he could?
是的
Yes.
两位证人都只为他们自己作不在场证明
We had two people who alibied only themselves.
他们只为彼此作证
They alibied each other.
没有其他证人在这段关键时间内看到他们
Nobody else saw them during this critical time period.
他们当时在埃弗里家他们有权进入
They were on the property, they had access,
他们...其中一人的证词
they-- one of them was directly
与一位自愿证人的证词直接冲突...
contradicted by an independent witness...
而她提供的关键时间
um... as to the critical time
才是受害人最后被目击的时间
of when she was supposedly last seen.
丽萨·毕希纳
米希科特高中校车司机
你是什么时候把车开到埃弗里路的尽头
What time did you find that you got to the end of Avery Road
并让戴西两兄弟下车的
where you would drop the Dassey boys off?
在3点30到4点或者3点40之间
Um, between 3:30 and 4:00-- or 3:40.
-3点30到3点40之间吗 -是的
- Between 3:30 and 3:40? - Yes.
你是怎么确定的呢
And how do you know that?
因为每天都是这个时间路线不变
'Cause it was about the same time every day. Same route.
好
OK.
在2005年10月31号♥周一那天
During the week that began on Monday, october 31, 2005,
你是否记得
do you remember seeing anything that,
在戴西两兄弟下车后
you know, you remembered later
周一那天还看到了什么吗
when you dropped the Dassey boys off Monday that week?
我记得我看到有个女人在拍照
I, um, remember seeing a woman taking photographs.
你能告诉我那个女人在拍什么吗
Could you tell what the woman was taking photographs of?
一辆面包车
A van.
好同样的问题那是什么时候的事
OK, so and again, that would've been about when?
-那天几点 -3点30 抱歉是3点30到3点40之间
What time of day? 3:30. I'm sorry, 3:30 to 3:40.
没有问题了谢谢
That's all I have. Thank you.
我想你是试图
And I assume you're trying
在公诉方给出的时间线中寻找漏洞
to sort of poke holes in the State's timeline,
这是你的用意吗
is that what that was all about?
你的问题中隐含的前提是
The implicit premise in your question
公诉方得有时间线这样我们才有漏洞可找
is that the State has a timeline and we're sitting poking holes.
我想她是给出时间线最可靠的人选了
I think this is the most reliable person to offer a timeline.
她与双方没有任何联♥系♥
She is not connected to any of the parties.
她作为一名职员能把时间精确到
She, as a matter of employment, had a very good reason
十分钟范围内是很合理的
to know what the time was within about a ten minute window.
我感到诧异的是居然是辩方
And I'm surprised that it's the Defense
传唤的该名证人
who had to call this witness
来建立一条可靠的时间线
to try to establish a reliable idea about time.
除了给出的时间并不符合对方说法
Except that the time doesn't fit with their theory.
-这是问题所在 -我是这么理解的
- That's the problem. - Well, that's kind of what I'm getting at.
该时间与布兰登·戴西的说法不吻合
The time doesn't fit with their Brendan Dassey theory.
我不清楚他们说事情是何时发生的
I don't know that they've actually said when this all happened.