法律与秩序（1990）

Law & Order S20E01

Part 6 Nov. 28, 2021, 4:11 p.m.

从他嘴里榨出信息吗
to extract information from him?
遭受身体或心理折磨的人
A man in severe pain or mental anguish
会说任何你想听的以停止这份折磨
will say anything to make it stop.
如果你只有24小时你最不想做的就是
If you only have 24 hours, the last thing you want to do
在虚假的线索上浪费时间
is waste time chasing down false leads.
虐待手段本身就是无效的
Torture just doesn't work.
没有人在支持虐待加德纳先生
No one here's advocating torture, Mr. Gardner.
我们讨论的是严厉手段
We're talking about harsh techniques.
我知道我们讨论的是什么
I know what we're talking about, sir.
我不需要一份备忘录告诉我什么是虐待
I don't need a memo to tell me what torture is.
杰克
Jack?
戴维真是个惊喜
David? What a nice surprise.
跟我走吧我去走楼梯
Come with me. I'm taking the stairs.
我需要锻炼
I need the exercise.
你也该练练了
So do you, kid.
华盛顿那里的人待你如何
How are they treating you in Washington?
不错
Good.
司法部长可不是杰克·麦考伊
The attorney general's no Jack McCoy,
不过我也学到了很多
But I'm learning a lot.
杰克他们是派我来跟你谈谈富兰克林案的
Jack, they sent me here to talk to you about the Franklin case.
他们想让你收手
They want you to call it off.
陪审团已经组建了一罪不二审已经触发了
The jury's empaneled, jeopardy's attached.
他们不管
They don't care.
他们想要所有被告的指控全部驳回
They want the charges dismissed against all the defendants.
我不懂了
I don't get it.
新一届政♥府♥的人都没有被指控
The new administration doesn't have a dog in this fight.
我们不能放任州检察官
We can't let state prosecutors try to hold
就战争中的所作所为起诉联邦政♥府♥官员
federal officials accountable for their conduct of a war.
这会立下不好的先例
It's a bad precedent.
不管怎样司法部长已经指派了
In any event, the attorney general's
特殊检察官来调查虐待指控
naming a special prosecutor to investigate torture claims.
我听说了找几个小人物下手
I heard. To go after the small fry,
几个战场上的混♥蛋♥
A couple of thugs in the field.
政策制定者决策者呢
What about the policy-makers, the deciders?
没错
Right.
他们有免死金牌因为如果你把上届政♥府♥的家丑全都扬出去
They get a free pass, because if you go after the previous administration's dirty laundry,
下一届政♥府♥也会对你们如法炮制
the next administration will go after yours.
这不是你想开的先例
That's the precedent you don't want to set!
政♥治♥游戏罢了杰克
It's just politics, Jack.
我不知道你在那边都学了写什么
I don't know what you're learning over there, David,
但我看你是把在这里学到的东西都还回来了
But you've forgotten everything you learned here.
告诉司法部长没戏
Tell the attorney general no deal.
信息大概是挫败恐♥怖♥分♥子♥威胁的最有力的武器
Information is perhaps the most critical weapon for defeating the terrorist threat.
我们能否成功就取决于我们能否得到那份信息
Our success rests on our ability to extract that information.
我的任务是为国防部
I was asked to advise the defense department
就审讯恐♥怖♥分♥子♥嫌疑人的法律标准一事提供意见
as to the legal standards governing the interrogation of terrorist suspects.
我将我的发现写入备忘录
I put my findings in a memo
并发送给相关方
and sent it on to the relevant parties.
谢谢
Thank you.
富兰克林先生将你提出的审讯恐♥怖♥分♥子♥嫌疑人的法律标准
Mr. Franklin, isn't it fair to characterize the legal standards you set
概括为只要总统要求则百无禁忌
governing the interrogations of suspects
这种概括是否合适
as "anything goes," so long as the president orders it?
总统作为三军总司令
And in his capacity as commander-in-chief
在战时总统是否有权发布任何在他看来合适的指令
in a time of war, he has the authority to issue any order he deems appropriate?
总统也不能违法
Well, the president can't break the law.
根据你的备忘录请问总统在反恐战争中
Well, according to your memo, what law is the president
受到何种法律约束
bound by in the war on terror?
日内瓦公约和海牙公约吗
The Geneva and Hague conventions?
这些公约并不适用因为被羁押的恐♥怖♥分♥子♥属于非法敌对人员
Not applicable because the terrorist detainees are illegal combatants.
第五修正案要求的正当程序呢
Well, the due process clause of the fifth amendment?
也不适用因为他们是关押在外国领土上的外国人
Not applicable to alien enemy combatants held abroad.
第八修正案禁止的残酷和不寻常的酷刑呢
The eighth amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishment?
也不适用因为严厉的审讯措施并不属于刑罚
Not applicable because harsh interrogations are not punishment.
所以照你所说战争之中总统毫无法律约束
So you are saying, in war, the president is bound by no laws?
是的战争之中
Yes, in war.
所以如果他决定他必须虐待某人
So if he deems he's got to torture somebody,
比如碾碎囚犯孩子的睾丸
for example, by crushing the testicles of that person's child,
按照你的备忘录没有法律或者公约禁止他这样做对吗
your memo says there is no law, no treaty that can stop him?
这要看总统为什么认为他必须采取虐待措施
Well, it would depend on why the president thinks he needs to do that.
你的备忘录将这些行为正当化
Now, your memo justifies these actions
因为这些囚犯并不是我们一般认为中的
because the detainees are not regular soldiers
正规国家军队中的常规军人对吗
in a national army as we understand it, correct?
是的
Correct.
违法敌对战斗分子无权享受常规法律保护
Unlawful enemy combatants are not entitled to the usual protections.
认为他们受到一般常理的保护
Is it too much to assume they'd be protected
这样的假设过分吗
by our own sense of decency?
这不是我的任务卡特先生
That's not the task I was given, Mr. Cutter.
我的备忘录只解决法律标准不解决道德标准
My memo addressed legal, not ethical, standards.
你在备忘录中如此写到历史上
Now, your memo says that, "historically, nations
国家和国家元首可以随意处置非法敌对人员
"and their sovereigns have been free to treat unlawful combatants as they wish."
你能否给我们举一个历史上的例子呢
Could you please give us such a historical example?
这
Well...
我临时想
Off the top of my head--
这个例子如何
What about this example?
由南越军官进行的针对越共游击队的即审即决
The summary execution of a Vietcong Guerilla by a south Vietnamese general.
这个呢
Or this.
德国♥军♥队对波兰反抗斗士的虐待和谋杀
The torture and murder of Polish resistance fighters by the German army.
这就是你建议总统享有的历史性权利吗
Is this the historical right you say the president should avail himself of?
主♥权♥的概念不是我发明的卡特先生
I didn't invent the right of sovereigns, Mr. Cutter.
我只是给了一个定义
I simply defined it.
对非法敌对人员的任意处置权吗
The right to do what they want with unlawful combatants?
对
Yes.
非法敌对人员如同被乔治国王宣布为叛乱分子的美国民兵吗
Unlawful combatants like the American militia after King George declared them rebels?
没错正是如此
Yes, like that.
所以你会为独♥立♥战争时期
So you would defend the brutal treatment
英国人对美国囚犯的残酷对待行为而辩护吗
of American prisoners by the British during the revolutionary war?
从法律的角度是的
From a legal standpoint? Yes.
富兰克林先生这个国家的精神你是哪里不明白
Mr. Franklin, what is it about this country that you don't get?
撤回问题
Withdrawn.
提问结束
No more questions.
一名州参议员刚刚打电♥话♥
There was a state senator on just now
要求将你撤离地方检察官职位
calling for your removal as D.A.
你知道吗八年前的那一天
You know, that day, eight years ago,
我们可以透过亚当的窗户看到燃烧的双子塔
we could see the towers burn from Adam's window.
我记得
I remember.
我内心的一部分说我才不管你对囚犯做什么
Part of me says, "I don't care what you do to these detainees.
我也不想知道
"I don't want to know.
只要保护好我们就好
Just protect us."
问题是现在我们知道了
The problem is now we do know.
是的但是我不确定这会有什么不同
Yeah, and I'm not sure that makes a difference.
联邦法庭要求我们明天出庭
We're wanted in federal court tomorrow.
司法部长要求法庭
The attorney general is asking the court
颁发禁止令停止地方检察官对
to issue an order staying the district attorney's
富兰克林和其他被告人的指控
prosecution of Mr. Franklin and the other defendants.
他们不能就这么介入停止这场审判
They can't just step in and stop the trial.
根据宪法第六条最高效力条款
Under the supremacy clause of the constitution,
依对外政策由联邦政♥府♥官员作出的行为
actions taken by federal officials in pursuit
免于州检察官的指控
of foreign policy are not grist for state prosecutions.
如果这些行为如虐待是明显违法的
If those actions are illegal, as torture clearly is,
则并不存在可以庇护那些促成这种行为的人
there's no overriding federal interest
的压倒性的联邦利益
in shielding those who enabled such actions.
好的先生们我将考虑这份动议
All right, gentlemen, I'll take the motion under advisement.
今天结束之前我会作出裁决
I'll issue my ruling by the end of the day.
在此期间州政♥府♥的诉讼可以继续进行
In the meantime, the state trial can proceed.
我真想不到你会做出这种事
I never expected this of you.
你已经离家太远了杰克
You're way off the reservation, Jack.
该死的戴维
Damn it, David.
我正是要守护我们的家园
I'm trying to save the reservation.
我们要向前看不是向后看
We're looking forward, not backward.
我们可不想帮助或安慰敌人
We're not looking to give aid and comfort to the enemy.