纽约客再现（2015）

The New Yorker Presents S01E03

Part 4 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:13 a.m.

which is the number 1 crop in the U.S.
那时候莠去津是世上
At the time, it was the number 1 selling
销量第一的杀虫剂
pesticide in the world.
我们发现莠去津对青蛙的影响是
What atrazine does in frogs, what we discovered,
伤害了雄性青蛙
is that it really screws up males,
雄性生殖器发育不良
that the male sex organs don't develop properly.
在路易安纳州的圣加百利的农场
In their own plant in St. Gabriel, Louisiana,
他们有着前列腺癌的比例
they have a prostate cancer rate
比同样工作在农田里
that's 8.4 times higher,
不从事打包莠去津的人
and that's compared to people who work in the same plant
高出8.4倍
but didn't work bagging the atrazine.
云里可以测量到莠去津
They can measure it in the clouds,
同样也可以从
and it can come down
喷洒的一千公里高空上降落
a thousand kilometers from where it was applied.
事实上这也是欧盟因为
In fact, that's one of the main reasons
法国禁止用而联合起来禁止莠去津
that the European Union came together and banned atrazine
的主要原因之一
because France banned it.
德国仍在使用
They were still using it in Germany.
莠去津会随着雨水下来
It was coming down in the rain water.
美国环保署不再说莠去津无副作用
The EPA is no longer saying atrazine doesn't do anything.
环保署很明白莠去津的作用
The EPA understands clearly what atrazine does.
他们说这不值得
They're saying it's not worth it.
我们必须在市场上流通
We have to keep it on the market
因为经济的原因
because of the economy.
我走了非常感谢你做的一切
I'm off. Thank you for everything.
好吧
All right.
我和Kathy在哈佛认识的
Kathy and I met at Harvard:
那天是1987年2月21日
February 21, 1987.
我同年六月八号♥毕业
I graduated on June 8 in 1989,
然后我们两天后结婚
and we were married two days later.
接着我们九月
And then we moved here
搬到了这里
in September of '89.
2014.7.5
加利福尼亚州奥克兰
搬到了这里
in September of '89.
2014.7.5
加利福尼亚州奥克兰
Tyrone被邀请去一个科学座谈会
Tyrone has asked to be on a scientific panel
复审关于莠去津的证据
to review the evidence about atrazine.
当他发现这些结果
When he discovered these results
并上报了
and reported it to them,
他们要求他做一些额外的功课
they asked him to do some additional work
去确保
to make sure that, you know,
结果是准确的
these things were really accurate.
他做了额外的功课
So he did some additional work,
然后他们想让他做更多
and then they wanted him to do more and more and more,
就在这个时候先正达公♥司♥说
and this is where, uh, Syngenta said, um,
我们可以长♥期♥资助你
you know, basically, "We could fund you for a really long time
如果你继续这项工作
if you'll just keep repeating this."
这本可以是非常简单的事
It could have been very easy
拿了他们的钱
just to take all the money they were offering
然后安定下来
and be set for life. It would have been, like,
本可以成为他一生研究的赞助
an endowment for life for him for research.
2014.7.6
加州大学伯克利分校
我诚心诚意地做试验
I performed the experiment in good faith
2014.7.6
加州大学伯克利分校
我诚心诚意地做试验
I performed the experiment in good faith
就如做任何试验一样
like I would any experiment.
客观而又双盲的实验
It was done objective. It was done blind
所以不知道哪些动物是实验组
so you didn't know which animals were being treated
哪些是对照组
and which were the controls, the placebo.
我真心认为
And I honestly thought
当他们看到莠去津
that when they saw the atrazine
对这些青蛙造成的不良反应他们就会...
have these adverse effects on frogs, then they would--
我不知道我为什么认为
I don't know why I thought
他们会停产
they would pull the product
或者寻找一种新配方
or look at a new formula or--
绝对不否认
Certainly not deny
或试着操纵
or try to manipulate the science
科学实验
the way that they did.
这些绝对不是
That certainly wasn't something
我预料到的
that I expected at all.
最近有一起集体诉讼案
Recently there was a class action suit
指控先正达掩盖
accusing Syngenta of concealing
莠去津的危险性
the dangerous nature of atrazine.
先正达最终和解
Syngenta eventually settled.
他们决定支付一亿零五百万
They decided to pay $105 million,
来支付过滤莠去津的成本
um, to pay for the costs of filtering atrazine,
但是他们否认任何不当的行为
but they denied any wrongdoing.
这场集体诉讼
The most powerful thing
的最大影响是
the class action suit did in some way
迫使先正达公开其内部记录
was force Syngenta to open up its internal records.
他们起草了四个目标
They had drafted a list of four goals,
第一个目标就是败坏Hayes的名声
and the first goal was to discredit Hayes,
确保针对Tyrone的出现
to make sure that there were systematic rebuttals
有一贯的反驳
of all of Tyrone's appearances,
调查他的妻子调查他的资金
investigating his wife, investigating his funding.
很明显通过这些笔记
It was clear through those notes
可以看出他们视他为威胁
that they saw him as a threat
想要解决掉他
and wanted to kind of dispose of him.
"比如我们可以
"For example, we could take
拿到Dr. Hayes的演讲日程
"Dr. Hayes' calendar of speaking engagements
然后共享给Dave Flackme和Danelle Farmer
"And share it with Dave Flackme and Danelle Farmer,
他们可以先接触
"Who can then start reaching out
潜在听众什么鼓舞着Hayes
"To the potential audiences. What's motivating Hayes?
基础的问题"
Basic questions."
他们宣称没有跟踪我
And they claim they weren't following me around.
"教育历史调查妻子
"School history. Investigate wife.
设一个陷阱" 这是我最喜欢的部分
Set a trap." That's my favorite.
我发现有趣的是
I find it interesting
他们很困惑什么在激励着他
that they were so perplexed by what motivates him.
这些文档中讲得通的解释是
In these documents is the sense
Hayes一定被某个人资助
that Hayes must be funded by someone,
一定是有某种财政基础
that there must be some kind of financial basis
支持他的探索
for this quest of his.
他们没法明白或
They couldn't understand or get--
触及到真♥相♥是
wrap their heads around the fact
他被他自己的理想激励着
that he was motivated by his own idealism
然后...
and that he--
钱不是他理想中的一个组成部分
Money was just not a part of that picture for him.
萨利纳斯河自南朝北流
Salinas River flows south to north,
南部的河是未污染的
and in the south it's uncontaminated.
当你到了北方有很多栖息地被破坏
As you get north, there's a lot of habitat degradation.
河道干涸了因为
The river dries up because
发展农业用光了水
the water's being drawn off agriculture.
这块土很烫
Oh, this dirt's hot, though.
快看那有一只大的小龙虾
Oh, there's big crayfish in there. Look at that.
这些牛蛙中出现变♥态♥
There's a metamorph--
看啊浣熊的脚印
Oh, look at that, raccoon prints.
带走变♥态♥的那只
Keep the metamorph.
全国85%的生菜
85% of the country's lettuce
产自这里
comes from here.
所以河的下游
So downstream of the river,
水是主要的农业径流
the water's mostly agricultural runoff.
青蛙移居到下游
Frogs have moved down there.
他们真的损害到了繁殖
They really have impaired reproduction
受损的免疫功能和更高的疾病率
and impaired immune function and higher disease rates
还有所有类似的事情
and all those kinds of things.
当你黄昏时候来
When you come at this time, dusk,
当你看着风景
and when you look out into the landscape,
你可以想象到过去
you can see in your mind's eye what it used to
或者本该是什么样
or what it could have used to look like in the past
因为这里真的是一个美丽的地方