纽约客再现（2015）

The New Yorker Presents S01E03

Part 1 Sept. 1, 2020, 10:13 a.m.

嗨 Marina Abramovic 很高兴在这里见到你
Hi, Marina Abramovic. Nice to see you here.
你竟然把我名字念对了
You actually pronounced my name pretty well.
我一直在努力
I've been working on it.
人们对我的名字感到困惑
People are so confused with my name.
Marina Abramovic
Marina Abramovic
是世界上最著名的行为艺术家
is the world's most famous performance artist.
从20世纪70年代♥开♥始
Starting in the 1970s,
她的催眠和通常让人不安的作品
her hypnotic and often disturbing work
探寻Marina的自身的身心的极限
has explored Marina's own physical and mental limits
模糊了表演者和观众的界限
and blurred the boundaries between performer and audience.
2010年她达到了一个里程碑事件
In 2010, she reached a milestone:
在纽约的现代艺术博物馆的回顾展
her retrospective at the Museum of Modern Art in New York
命名为"艺术家在此"
entitled "The Artist is Present."
走走
Walk! Walk, please! Walk!
快走
Walk, walk.
展览上初次登台是
The exhibition debuted a piece
Marina每天静♥坐♥
in which Marina remained seated silently
七个小时连续超过两个月
for seven hours a day for over two months,
一次一个参观者参加
joined by one visitor at a time.
表演是一次轰动
The show was a sensation,
博物馆吸引了七十五万人来参加
with the museum attracting 750,000 people during its run.
在她的新表演"发电机"
Now in her new show "Generator,"
艺术家不一定在场
the artist is not necessarily present.
咱们试试吧
Let's go for it.
Marina 一个长♥期♥
Marina, who for so long
令自己成为人们关注的焦点的人
has made herself the center of attention,
不能被体验展览的人
cannot be seen or heard
看到或是听到
by the people who experience the exhibition.
这种体验
This kind of experience
十年前是不可能的
would be no way possible ten years ago
因为公众还没准备好
because public was not ready,
但是现在他们厌倦了一切
but now they're so tired of everything.
我们厌倦了电子产品和自♥拍♥
We're tired from electronics and tired from selfies
厌倦了电♥话♥和电脑
and tired from the telephones and computers,
所以当你除去了所有这些
so when you take all these things out
把他们放进一个空荡荡的空间
and you put them into empty space
遮住他们的眼睛
and you blindfold them
给他们戴上耳机
and put the headphones on the ears,
他们真的能发现自己
they-- they actually find themselves with themselves.
即便我不在场
But even if I'm not present,
人们可以感到我在那里
people have a feeling that I'm there,
这很奇怪
which is strange.
我假设... 我说的不对请纠正我
Which I assume-- I mean, correct me if I'm wrong--
纽约客特约撰稿人
我假设... 我说的不对请纠正我
Which I assume-- I mean, correct me if I'm wrong--
你的一部分也在其中对吗
was part of what you were playing with, right?
纽约客特约撰稿人
我们从庞大的
I mean, we go from from
纽约客特约撰稿人
我们从庞大的
I mean, we go from from
现代艺术馆的"艺术家在此"的表演出发
the huge MoMA show "The Artist is Present,"
那次在于人们
where part of what people are,
陆陆续续地来体验
you know, coming in droves to experience
他们知道会
is they know they're going to have
遇到你
an encounter with you.
现在你的精神在场
And now you're present in spirit
但不是肉体上的存在
but not in physicality. I mean,
这是你要努力的地方吗
is that part of what you're working with?
每次表演
You know, every performance
带到发展的新一步
bring to new step of development,
"艺术家在此"是一对一的交流
so "Artist is Present" Was really one-to-one communication,
但不再是
but it's not anymore the situation
当公众在艺术家面前
when the public is in the front of the artist
看到他的表演的情形
and seeing him performing.
整个和
You know, this whole thing
名人打交道的事
about how do I deal with celebrity
我是Marina Abramovic
and I'm Marina Abramovic
如果我不是会让你痛苦
and if you-- if I'm not, it'll kill you
不接触你那么你就没有体验
and not touch you, then you don't experience.
这是胡扯重点是你得到体验
It's bullshit. Is you have to get experience.
没有人会因为别人而改变
Nobody ever change from experience with somebody else.
你必须自己实现
You have to make the journey.
我们都害怕未知的领域
We are so afraid with all this unknown territory,
在这里你真正感到可以自♥由♥去做
and here you're actually free to do.
如同一个盲人
It's like a blind man.
你必须去感受周围的能量
You have to feel energy everywhere,
那是你缺失的东西
and that's something that you have to develop.
眼睛被遮住你才能看得更多
With eyes closed, you see more.
这才是要旨
This is the main thing.
眼睛被遮住你才能看得更多
With eyes closed, you see more.
对我来说有意思的是
It's an interesting thing to me
你最近的很多工作
that so much of your work lately
都是关于谈判一个
has been about negotiating
安宁平静的状态
a peaceful, quiet state of being.
然后你还
And then there's the business
曾经苦修过
of the mortification of the flesh and pain.
现已有40年的生涯
Now it's 40 years of career.
回望过去一开始
Looking back, in the beginning,
我真的想知道
I really wanted to know
肉体的极限在哪里
where the limits of the physical body,
所以在我人生的第一个阶段
so in my first part of my life,
我想要把自己推入肉体的边缘
I want to push physical borders
观众可以看到
so the audience can look at that,
我怎么经历那些的
how I'm going through that.
现在我逐渐流失对疼痛的害怕
Now actually I'm losing fear of the pain
我通过这种体验释放自己
and how I liberate myself through this experience
我变成了一面镜子
so I become the mirror.
九十年代你说过
In the '90s, you said, "If you're not a passionate--
"如果你对生活没有热情
"If you're not passionate in life,
你就没法对艺术怀有热情
"You cannot be passionate in art.
做♥爱♥在我生命中一个极度重要的部分"
Making love is an extremely important part of my life."
你会因为性生活美满才成为一个出色的艺术家吗
Do you have to have a good sex life to be a good artist?
我从来没这么说过
I never said exactly--
对不起是我误解了吗
Oh, I'm sorry. Did I misinterpret it?
不是我说了别的
No, no, no, no, no. I said something else.
我认为性能量非常重要
I think the sexual energy is incredibly important.
它是原始的能量
This is primordial energy.
我做了一个很有意思的短片
And I made a really interesting piece that I loved
因为不是很多人明白
because not many people know here
在这个国家性是禁忌
because sex is such a taboo in this country,
作品叫"巴尔干情♥色♥史诗"
and it's called "Balkan Erotic Epic."
我回到我以前的国家南斯拉夫
I went to my old country Yugoslavia,
我开始调查这些旧典礼
and I start looking into these old rituals,
然后我用这些典礼
and then I actually take these rituals,
做了一部影片里面都是真实的人
and I made them as a film with real people.
其中一个典礼来自14世纪
So one of the rituals come from the 14th century,
这种典礼是这样
and this-- the ritual is like this:
如果村里有降雨
if the rain falls in the villages,
大多数雨水
so many of this rain
会造成洪灾
that it would be completely flooded
人们下个季节时
and the people not anything to eat
就没有吃的了
for the-- in next season.
一个典礼是村里的所有女人
The one ritual that all the women of the village
跑向田间
run to the fields
掀开她们的短裙展示露出她们的阴♥部♥
and lift their skirts, show their vagina
来吓跑神灵从而停止降雨
to scare the gods to stop the rain.
不好意思这不是坏事
Excuse me. This was not bad.
那是我在现代艺术博物馆里最喜欢的作品
That was my favorite piece in the MoMA show
是那部阴♥部♥在雨里横飞的影片吗
was the film of those vaginas flying in the rain--
惩罚上天下雨
was punishing the gods for raining?
是的但你能想象
Yeah, but can you imagine
阴♥部♥有惩罚神灵的能力吗