斯科塞斯先生（2025）

我记得 在纽约大学时
And I remember, when I was at NYU,
所有学生都住在 里弗代尔这种漂亮的地方
all the students, they lived in Riverdale. They lived in beautiful places.
他们的家人都是医生和律师
Their families were all doctors and lawyers.
我不能告诉他们我的家乡是哪里
I couldn't explain to these people where I came from.
马蒂说 他看到 《出租车司机》的剧本时很震惊
Marty said that he was so stunned when he read Taxi Driver
就好像是他自己写的
that it almost felt like, he could've written it himself.
你觉得这是为什么?
Why do you think that is?
是因为里面有孤独
You know, that's isolation.
心底里的孤独
And loneliness that's pent up.
愤怒和替代感
Anger, displacement.
以及这个圣母妓♥女♥情结问题
This Madonna-whore problem.
那个出租车司机一直盯着我们
That taxi driver has been staring at us.
在《出租车司机》的初版剧本中
In my original script of Taxi Driver,
有一句台词
there is a line
特拉维斯·比克尔 就和狼盯着远处的篝火一样
that Travis Bickle watches the campaign headquarters
注视着竞选总部
like a wolf watching campfires in the distance.
我觉得那幅画面打动了马蒂
And I think that was an image that struck Marty.
他总是和那些孩子一样在操场边缘
You know, he was always one of those kids at the edge of the playground.
很矮 有哮喘
He's short, he's asthmatic.
感觉自己成为了孤狼 看到了文明的火焰
That idea of being a wolf and seeing the fires of civilization
无法被世界完全接纳
and not being able to be fully accepted.
我们该如何表达
And so, I just felt, how do we express the...
其意思?
the meaning of it?
怎么表达呢?
How do we express that?
我会在剧本边缘画一些镜头
I would draw the shots on the side of the script.
把他和其他人隔离开
To isolate him from other people.
其他人在他周围 打上柔焦 看起来就像大海一样
With everybody around him completely soft focus like a sea.
而他就好像在大海里漂流
He's floating through a sea.
我们总是在心理上
So we always try to kind of, psychologically, try to keep him...
想把他和其他人分开
separate from everybody else.
每一帧里的角色是谁? 这是这部电影的关键
That was the key thing in that film. Who is in whose frame?
我总是把他放到单独一帧里
And so, I was trying always to keep him in a single frame.
那一帧里没有其他人
Nobody in his frame.
在我切到其他人的时候 画面里也有他
And then, when I cut to the other person. he's in their frame.
但他们不在专属于他的画面
But they're not in his.
你的眼睛很漂亮
You know you have beautiful eyes.
我记得第一次看《出租车司机》的时候
I remember watching Taxi Driver for the first time
他和德尼罗在屏幕上捕捉到的
and what he and De Niro had captured up on screen
正是
was this incredible sense of
莱昂纳多·迪卡普里奥 演员
主角那种惊人的不适感
feeling uncomfortable for the lead character.
在约翰逊和马斯特斯在美国学习之前...
他带约会对象去时代广场看色情电影
He took his date to Times Square to a porno film.
我记得那种替别人尴尬 甚至都影响到自己的感觉
And I just remember feeling embarrassed for somebody so much that it affects you.
我不喜欢这些电影
I don't like these movies.
我不知道你对这部电影有这种感觉
Well, I mean, I didn't know that you'd feel that way about this movie.
我对电影不是很了解
I don't know much about movies,
我要是知道... - 你就看这种电影吗?
but if I had known... - These the only kind of movies you go to?
呃 对 我来... 这没有很糟糕
Well, yeah. I mean, I come and-- This is not so bad.
带我来这种地方 就是想让我兴奋地说出:“我们做吧”
Taking me to a place like this is about as exciting to me as saying, "Let's fuck."
我可以带你去其他地方
There are other places I can take you.
可以带你去看很多其他电影
Plenty other movies I can take you to.
我对电影不是很了解
I don't know much about them.
但我可以带你去其他地方 - 我们不一样
But I can take you other places. - We're just different.
在这部电影中 羞辱和暴♥力♥之间有这样一种联♥系♥
There's such a link between humiliation and violence in the film.
对
Yeah.
这些人开枪破坏一切 这件事是真的
And it's so true of all these guys who shoot up everything.
对 他们遭到了大家的羞辱
Well, yeah, they are humiliated by people, yeah.
对
Yeah.
现实里确实有这种人
There are people like that, and they are real.
你是怎么不夸张地描绘他们的?
And how do you depict them without becoming caricature?
我们开始即兴创作
We started improvising and
尽可能真实地描绘这些角色
it was about doing the characters, as honestly as you could.
对我来说 那就是... 马蒂并不害怕这样做
That to me was always on the-- Marty was never afraid to do that.
对
Yeah.
比你快
Faster than you.
剧本上写着:“他看着镜子
The script says, "He looks into the mirror,
玩弄着手♥枪♥ 自言自语”
he plays with his guns and talks to himself."
然后鲍勃
And Bob...
改了一下
transformed it.
我站在这里 你动一下
I'm standing here, you make the move.
你动一下
You make the move.
该你动了
It's your move.
我坐在这里
I was sitting here.
别干...
Don't try it...
马蒂坐在这边的椅子上
Marty was here in his chair.
鲍勃站在镜子前
And Bob... was standing there, in front of a mirror,
开始自言自语
and Bob starts talking to himself.
你在和我说话吗?
You talking to me?
你在和我说话吗?
You talking to me?
马蒂听到那句话后看向我...
Marty heard that one phrase, and he looked over at me and went...
你以为你在和谁说话?
Who the fuck do you think you're talking to?
是吗?
Oh, yeah?
好吧
Okay.
听着 你们这些蠢货
Listen you fuckers, you screwheads.
我不再忍♥了
Here is a man who would not take it anymore.
感觉现在 有很多像特拉维斯·比克尔这样的人
Feels like there's a lot of Travis Bickles, especially right now.
他们都是在网上口嗨的
That are all talking to each other on the internet.
我第一次描写他的时候 他不和别人说话
When I first wrote about him, he was talking to nobody.
他当时是“地下人”
He really was at that point, the Underground Man.
现在则是“网络人”了
Now he's the "Internet Man".
兄弟 快把我弄出去 好吗?
Come on, man. Just get me out of here, all right?
我饰演妓♥女♥艾丽斯
I play Iris, who's a prostitute.
12岁
She's twelve.
和哈威·凯特尔饰演的妓院老板一起
And found herself with a pimp, played by Harvey Keitel.
想被抓起来吗?婊♥子♥ 冷静下来!
Wanna get busted? Now bitch, be cool!
马蒂打电♥话♥说
Marty called up and said, you know,
“我想让朱迪饰演这部电影里的妓♥女♥”
"I'd like Jodie to play a prostitute in this movie."
一开始 他因为雇了我而非常紧张
He was very nervous in the beginning about taking me on,
我年纪太小了 他总是感觉
because he always felt like some cop is gonna come up
警♥察♥要来逮捕他了
and bang handcuffs on him, because I was so young.
斯科塞斯把我交给了德尼罗
Scorsese kind of handed me off to De Niro
我们去了这些低级咖啡厅
and we went to these kind of dive coffee shops.
他并非以罗伯特·德尼罗 这个身份和我说话
He didn't speak to me, obviously, as Robert De Niro,
他一直都在角色中
he was in character the whole time.
他笨手笨脚的 有点难相处和烦人
And he was awkward and kind of difficult, and sort of annoying to be around.
我可以接受他角色里的笨拙
And I guess I got comfortable with his awkwardness,
和行为方式
and with him in character.
你应该打扮一下 和男生一起出去玩
You should be dressed up, you should be going out with boys.
去上学 诸如此类
You should be going to school. You know, that kind of stuff.
天哪 你是一根筋吗?
God, are you square.
我拍电影拍了很久
I'd been making movies for a long time,
但是从未拍过这种角色
but as a very different character.
我本人和你想拍的角色很不一样
I was so against type of who you would cast for this.
我觉得马蒂看出来了
And I think Marty saw something in that.
他对此很感兴趣
I think he was interested in that, you know.
“我想要个虽然从事色情行业
"I want a strong character who isn't overly sexualized
却不自甘堕落的坚强角色”
in this very sexualized job."
他想得到一些画面
He's trying to get some pictures.
轮到我们拍场景的时候
When it came time for us to do our scenes together,
马蒂会允许我们提出一些想法 即兴表演
Marty would allow for us to come up with things and to improvise.
我们即兴了一下 故意让她有点措手不及
We did improvisations and we did throw her off a little, on purpose.
但她保持住了状态
But she held her own and came back.
甚至还反击了 她待在那边 没有惊慌失措
Meaning that she fought back. She stayed there, she didn't get rattled.
我觉得斯科塞斯在拍那部电影期间
I don't think Scorsese could've been more gleeful
高兴极了
during that shoot.
光拍电影就能让他高兴了
He was just happy to be making films.
能和想拍电影的朋友在一起 也让他很高兴
He was happy to be with his friends that wanted to make movies.
我记得他妈妈来片场探班了 他还让她坐在导演的椅子上
I remember his mom visiting on set and him putting her in the director's chair.
他们之间的互动有点搞笑
They had a little comedy routine going, you know?
他们感觉非常亲密
They just really felt very close