窃听黑幕（2025）

The Hack S01E01

Part 1 Oct. 14, 2025, 3:26 p.m.

我们时常会被两个问题所困扰着
you are consumed by two questions constantly:
如何讲述故事…
how to tell a story...
但或许更重要的是为什么要讲这个故事
but, perhaps more crucially, why to tell a story.
想象一下有个国家
Imagine a country.
天气不错我们就设定它天气不错吧
Nice weather. Let's give it nice weather.
对英国来说算是天气不错了
Nice weather for England anyway.
想象这个国家的人♥民♥
Imagine the people in this country
相信他们自己生活在一个民♥主♥的社会里
believe they are living in a democracy.
相信自己拥有自♥由♥
Believe in their own freedom.
但他们正在被一种权利所虐待
But they are being abused,
这种权利是如此日常以致于他们不会察觉
by a power so everyday they don't know to look for it,
这是媒体警♥察♥和政客三方的联合背叛
a treacherous combination of press, the police and politicians -
就藏在众目睽睽之下…
that hide in plain sight...
想象一下有个国家在这里隐瞒是…
Imagine a country where that concealment was -
想象一下有个国家…
imagine a country where -
在这里…新闻机构…
where - the news organisations -
该死
S**t.
想象一下全部删掉
Imagine it all deleted.
华丽的胡言乱语
Florid nonsense.
我叫尼克戴维斯
My name is Nick Davies.
我是一名记者…
I am a journalist...
这是一个最后导致七起重大警方调查
And this is a story that ends in seven major police investigations.
将近40项定罪的故事
Nearly forty convictions.
这个国家里某些最有权势的人
And some of the most powerful people
也不得不跪下…
in this country being bought to their knees...
不行
No.
太夸张了…
Too grand...
我叫尼克戴维斯
My name is Nick Davies.
我是一名记者
I'm a journalist.
早安
Morning.
我是来报到的…
I'll just check in...
这一切都要从斯图亚特库特纳开始说起
It all started with Stuart Kuttner.
哈啰
Hello.
不行
No.
这是我写过最令人烦恼的故事了
This is the most troubling story I've ever written.
一个关于权力被滥用和真♥相♥被掩盖的故事
A story about the abuse of power, and the concealment of truth.
嗨
Hi.
尼克戴维斯
Nick Davies.
来上《今日广播新闻》
For the Today programme.
我迟到了
I'm late.
英国新闻界草率且道德沦丧
British Journalism is sloppy and morally bankrupt.
这是记者尼克戴维斯的指控他写了一本书
That is the claim of the journalist Nick Davies who's written a book,
揭露报纸经常使用非法手段
that shows how often newspapers use illegal methods,
来获取新闻
for getting their stories.
这被称为奉承的新闻
It's called flatter news.
现在尼克戴维斯就在我们节目现场早安
And Nick Davies joins us now, good morning.
嗨
Hi.
你说草率是因为报纸都使用新闻稿
You say sloppy because newspapers use press releases,
而不是自己去挖掘采访
as rather than getting their own stories,
而道德沦丧是牵涉到非法行为
and morally bankrupt because of the illegality involved.
实际上贯穿这些所有
Really the root that binds together,
不同问题的根源是新闻的逻辑
all the different themes is that the logic of journalism,
已经被商业的逻辑所取代
has been overwhelmed by the logic of commercialism.
记者再也没有时间
Journalists no longer have the time,
也没有资源去妥善完成自己的工作
or the resources to do their jobs properly,
他们只能被动地去处理那些未经查证的
instead they're just passive processors of unchecked,
二手资料
second-hand material.
对但是你…你也进一步指出
Yeah but you... you also, you go much further in suggesting
这其中牵涉到一些犯罪行为
that there has been criminality involved?
没错
Sure.
而这点在新闻界内也普遍被接受
And that's generally accepted within the press.
好这主要包含雇用私♥家♥侦♥探♥
Okay, so principally that involves hiring private investigators,
他们请私♥家♥侦♥探♥调查你的银行帐单
they hire private investigators to get your bank statements,
你的信♥用♥卡♥帐单
your credit card statements,
通话明细
your itemised phone bills,
税务记录
your tax records,
甚至你的健康记录
even your health records,
这些家伙能拿到的这些资料全部都是违法的
these creatures are getting, all of that is illegal.
好我们还有两位来宾
Okay, we're joined by John Mullin
《周日独♥立♥报》的主编约翰穆林
who is editor of the Independent on Sunday
还有《世界新闻报》的编辑主任斯图亚特库特纳
and Stuart Kuttner who's managing editor of News of the World.
约翰穆林你认同这些说法吗
John Mullin, do you recognise this?
嗯我认真读完这本书的前半部了
Well, I've ploughed my way through the first half of the book,
后半部还没看…
not the second half so far -
没有人能否认现在的新闻业
and no one can deny that life in journalism
比20 30年前还要困难许多
is much harder than maybe it was twenty, thirty years ago,
但要说整个新闻界
but to say that journalism as a whole,
只是被动地处理新闻
is a passive processor of news,
我认为这是不正确的
I think that's erroneous.
斯图亚特库特纳
Stuart Kuttner -
是的我来说说我的看法
Yes, I'll tell you what I think.
坦白说我刚刚在听尼克戴维斯说话时
I think frankly, listening to err Nick Davies
我觉得他是从另一个星球的新闻编辑部来的
I thought he was speaking from a newsroom - on another planet.
这些说法我完全无法认同
It is totally unrecognisable to me.
我在报业多年
Many years in newspapers,
从弗利特街开始当然现在是在《世界新闻报》
in Fleet Street, now of course at the News of the World -
但他到底说错了什么
But what did he say that was so wrong?
他提到了所谓的捷径公♥关♥影响
Well, he talks about, if you like, err shortcuts, PR interests,
商业利益
commercial interests,
我必须说
I have to tell you,
我《世界新闻报》的记者
none of my News of the World journalist's
根本不会认同这些说法…
would recognise that at all -
那这些人取得新闻
But what about the way these people get their stories
个人资讯的方式呢
and access to personal information -
如果真的发生这种事这是不该发生的
Well, if it happens, it, it shouldn't happen.
这在《世界新闻报》发生过一次
It happened once at the News of the World.
那名记者被解雇去坐牢了
The reporter was fired, he went to prison,
总编也辞职了但当尼克在谈这些事的时候
the editor resigned, and while Nick is talking about all this.
我发现他没有提到
I notice, he doesn't mention
《卫报》也曾经有违法行为
the Guardian's own act of criminality,
当时《卫报》伪造了一位内阁的签名
when the Guardian forged the signature of a Cabinet.
好的我… -部长…
Okay I... -Minster -
我不想深入探讨这些故事的细节…
I don't want to go into details of stories -
我认为尼克戴维斯的指控…
I think the charge that Nick Davies...
莎拉你或许不想谈论这些细节
Well, Sarah, you may not want to go into detail,
但尼克提出的是一个针对我们这个行业整体性的抨击
but Nick makes a broad-brush sweeping attack on our profession
而我认为新闻业是个值得尊敬的行业
which I happen to believe is an honourable profession-
好的 -莎拉我可以…
Okay. -Sarah, may I -
我们已经整理好…
It's being prepared...
哈啰这里是《卫报》新闻编辑部
Hello, Guardian news desk.
你有听到吗
Did you hear it?
我希望我没听到
I wish I hadn't.
你真是太客气了
You're too kind.
我早就说过上《今日广播新闻》
I did say appearing on the Today programme
去抨击新闻业不是个很明智的作法
to attack journalism wasn't exactly the most sensible idea.
听着在我回家之前我想跟你谈件事…
Listen, before I go home, I wanted to talk to you about something -
好消息是你不是代表《卫报》去上节目的
The good thing was you weren't representing The Guardian.
你只是在谈你的书
You were talking about your book.
我的书
My book.
虽然库特纳还是努力地想透过你来泼我们脏水
Though Kuttner did have a good go at trying to besmirch us through you -
我想放假
I want out.
你对烘焙比赛了解吗
Do you know anything about baking competitions?
不了解
No.
我想知道有多少人会在烘焙比赛里作弊
I want to know how many people cheat at baking competitions.
要一个大概的数字
A round number.
听起来就像是《卫报》应该要去调查的事
Sounds like exactly the sort of thing The Guardian should be investigating.
我不是说完全放假
I don't mean out altogether.
我想去布鲁塞尔
I'd like to go to Brussels.
探索全新的领域
Investigate a whole new horizon.
薪水很高的那种…
Something well paid -