艾伦对决法罗（2021）

哪怕是在90年代早期
Even in the early '90s,
任何指控遭受了性侵的儿童
nobody interviewed a child of any age
无论任何年龄 都不该被约谈九次
amidst an allegation of sexual abuse nine times.
同样一件事 你不能对一个孩子
You don't interview a child about the same allegation
翻来覆去约谈这么多次
over and over and over again.
你要
You...
尽可能地
interview the child
少约谈这个孩子
the least amount of times as possible,
避免造成心理创伤
so as not to re-traumatize the child.
同一个问题 我被反复问得越多
The more I was asked the same question over and over,
我就越开始好奇
the more I started to wonder,
他们到底想我怎么样
what do they want from me?
我感觉 同一句话 我重复的次数越多
And feeling like the more I said the same thing, that...
就越不是正确的答案
it was the wrong answer.
他们对我的态度 就好像我在
That I was being treated like I was...
撒谎
lying.
要是我的说法改了一个字
If I change a word here,
就是前后矛盾
they say I'm being inconsistent.
要是我的说法前后一模一样
If I use exactly the same...
他们就说我是受人唆使了
words that I used every other time, I was coached.
在这个孩子接受的先后9次询问中
There were absolute consistencies
对于同样的询问者
in which this child said the same thing
她所提供的证词
to the same interviewers
都出奇的一致
over the nine times she was interviewed.
对于这件事 她提供的证词都是一致的 谁摸了她
She's very consistent about who touched her,
在这套房♥子的哪里 摸了她身体的什么部位
where in the house, what part of her body,
他用什么摸的她
what he touched her with.
也就是在她的证词中
So she's very consistent with the core
这个事件的一些核心要素是非常一致的
elements of her disclosure.
在她提供的证词中 基本没有有什么需要回忆更改的情况
She hasn't really moved away from that in, in these, in this report,
前后几次询问都是这样的
in all of these interviews.
你知道 我还是一个7岁的小姑娘的时候
You know, every little idiosyncrasy
可能有的一些个小癖好
that I could have had as a seven-year-old girl
现在全成了他们拿来攻击我的武器
was used against me.
那些我用了一些孩子语气的一些描述
The fact that I used childish descriptions.
我当时把几个
I described a couple of
人体模型的头称为死人头
mannequin heads as "dead heads."
那些死人头后来经鉴定
The dead heads were later identified
是米娅·法罗
as Mia Farrow's...
用来套假发的模具 那可能是他的职业需要吧
mannequins for her wigs, probably in her profession.
我觉得对于一个7岁的孩子
I did not find that to be
那样的表述没有什么说不通的
an unreasonable description by a seven-year-old
她也只是想尽力描述清楚她在妈妈的阁楼里面看见了什么
that's trying to identify what was in Mom's attic.
他们对迪伦为什么会幻想的结论
Part of their conclusion of why Dylan fantasized
部分是因为她提到了“魔法时刻”
was because she referred to "the magic hour."
而且 你也知道
And, you know,
只要是一个从小在电影制片人身边长大的孩子
anybody who's grown up around filmmakers knows that
都多多少少知道一天中有一些时候的确能看见神奇的光
certain hours of the day do have the magic light.
我的父母都是在电影行业工作的
I was the kid of two people in the film industry.
所以我也经常会在拍摄现场
And I was on set a lot!
所以 我是怎么知道
So how was I supposed to know that that
那是一种很神奇的思维的呢
constitutes magical thinking?
我的意思是 我们要非常慎重
I mean, that's a pretty big thing to say
如果我们要说一个7岁的孩子出现了幻觉
a seven-year-old child is delusional,
想法稀奇古怪
isn't thinking right,
不知道什么是幻想 什么是现实
doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality.
这份报告并没有反映出任何实质内容
This report failed to reflect anything
甚至连从中得出这个孩子有精神病这样的结论都很牵强
even close to the child having a psychotic disorder.
可以说完全不着边际
Not even close.
珍妮佛·索亚和茱莉亚?汉密尔顿博士
Jennifer Sawyer and Dr. Julia Hamilton,
她们都是勒尔塔文团队的两名社工
two social workers on Leventhal's team,
是她们当时讯问的狄伦
interviewed Dylan.
但是根据勒尔塔文医生的证词
But according to Dr. Leventhal's deposition,
耶鲁纽黑文的惯例是要在评估结束后
Yale-New Haven's practice was to destroy all notes
销毁所有记录
after the completion of an evaluation.
所以 现在的结果就是 我们根本不可能找到
So, ultimately, no contemporaneous record exists
当时两名社工在询问狄伦的时候
of what the social workers thought or observed
想到了什么 观察到了什么的有关记录
when they interviewed Dylan.
所有的记录都被销毁了
All of the notes were destroyed.
不 有些记录是绝对不能被销毁的
No. Notes are never destroyed.
比如说在法医鉴定期间 这样的笔记就是不能销毁的
Notes are never destroyed during a forensic evaluation.
永远 永远不可能被销毁
Never, ever, ever destroyed.
记录就是证据
Notes are evidence,
我们会把审讯期间的任何图片资料
and we would turn over any drawings,
任何笔记都翻出来
any notes we took in an interview.
以及在审讯期间记录下来的任何东西
Anything that was written down in an interview
都会被移交给执法部门
would be handed over to law enforcement.
如果当时这个案子我选择上法庭作证
If I had elected to go to trial on this case,
我要问所有审判长的第一个问题就是
my first question to each of those evaluators,
请允许我看当时你们审讯这个孩子的时候
"Let me see your contemporaneous notes
记下来的笔记
in your interview of this child."
销毁了 都销毁了
Destroyed. All of them.
所以说 这是一个走过场的评估
Bottom line, this was basically a runaway evaluation.
耶鲁纽黑文医院没有
Yale-New Haven did not have
权利下定论
the authority to reach their conclusion.
你知道 他们要讨论的问题是 是否有犯罪行为
You know, they're talking about whether a crime occurred,
能够最后得出结论一个孩子
and the people who decide whether a child
是不是一场受害者的人是法官或者陪审团
is a victim of a crime is a judge or a jury.
我才是给出最终审判结果的人 不是耶鲁
I make the decision, not Yale.
我还没有放弃宪法赋予我的
I haven't relinquished my constitutional responsibility
要我决定是否继续提起上诉的责任
to decide whether or not we're going to prosecute.
要最终判决这个孩子是否被性侵
It is up to a trained prosecutor to determine whether or not
需要的是专业的检察官 就这么简单
that child has been sexually abused, period.
谁都不可以拿着那份报告断章取义
No one should hold up that report
就说伍迪·艾伦是清白的
and say Woody Allen was exonerated.
康涅狄格州的调查还在进行中
While the investigation continued in Connecticut,
与此同时纽约儿童福利管理中心
the investigation in New York
那边的调查也正在开展
by the Child Welfare Administration was also underway.
负责这个案子的警官是谢乐尔·哈登
The supervisor assigned to the case was Sheryl Harden.
在我的性♥虐♥待调查小组里 我是高级主管
In my sex abuse unit, I was a senior supervisor.
我们负责调查了纽约市
We investigated child abuse throughout the five boroughs
五个行政区的虐童事件
of the City of New York.
所以在我读了有关证词之后 我考虑了一下
So after I read the allegations and I looked at it,
我说 没问题 我把这个案子派给保罗
I said, okay, I'll assign this to Paul.
保罗·威廉姆斯是我小组里非常优秀的一位调查官
Paul Williams was one of the top investigators that I had.
他是个思维缜密的人 看待问题非常客观
He was very thorough. He was objective.
保罗·威廉姆斯那时候经手过的案件
Paul Williams had roughly handled
差不多有800多个
about 800 cases at the time,
而且差不多在那件事发生的前一年 就是1991年
and just the year before, in 1991,
纽约市
the City of New York
授予了他“年度工作者”的称号♥
awarded him Caseworker of the Year.
这是他们首次
It was the first time that they had ever
把这样的奖项颁给案件审理员
awarded such an award to a caseworker.
保罗讯问了狄伦
Paul interviewed Dylan
觉得她说的话很可信
and found her to be quite credible.
在她那个年纪 她应该是不知道那种事
At her age, she should not know anything about
比如说把手指伸进阴♥道♥之类的
inserting a finger into the vagina.
她也不太可能会知道
She should not know anything about
要把手指伸进肛♥门♥这种事
inserting a finger into the anus.
要讨论这样的问题
Those are not things that should be
对于她来说应该让她很不安
easy for her to discuss,
除非有什么我们没了解到的事情
um, unless there's something occurring.
在我们所获取的几份记录里面
Among the records we obtained
我们发现了一份保罗·威廉姆斯
were a complete set of Paul Williams'
在那个时候所做的完整记录
contemporaneous investigation notes.
在他被指派处理这个案件之后的两周以内
Within the first two weeks of being assigned to the case,
威廉姆斯向上级报告说他那边有足够的信息
Williams reported that there was sufficient information
可以开始有关伍迪·艾伦的犯罪调查
to open a criminal investigation of Woody Allen
在纽约州
in the state of New York.
后来上级部门的工作人员告诉他
He was later told by superiors that,