审讯室：英国

that thing with his thumb.
他睡着之后 我拿过他的手♥机♥
While he was asleep, I'd get his phone,
用他的大拇指解了锁
put his thumb on it so the lock would open,
然后看了他发给麦克斯的所有简讯
and I'd read all these WhatsApp messages to Max,
给卢卡的简讯
messages to Luca...
-你确定是给卢卡的信息 -确定
- Are you sure they were to Luca? - Absolutely.
我们没有任何记录
We don't have any record of--
对 我全都删光了 也没告诉他
No, I deleted them, all of them. Without telling him.
这样他之后再发信息时
So that when he went to send the next one
就会发现历史信息没了
he'd find the others were gone.
这是妻子在告诉他 "我都知道了"
Wifey's way of saying, "I'm onto you"
却不用...面对面对质的方法
without actually having to... to confront it in person.
那让你生气吗
And it made you angry?
不 我...
No, I was...
其实我觉得他特别丢人
embarrassed for him more than anything else.
这种无止境的...讨好
The never-ending... flattery.
丢人丢到家了
Mortifying.
他们都发什么信息
And what did they say, the messages?
我们的目标是期望她们的对话中
What you want is for more of these things
能出现更多这样的事
to come up in their conversation.
其他只有凶手知道的信息
Other facts, known only to the killer.
问题是 我们能允许这个对话继续吗
Question is, are we allowed to let this continue?
当然可以
'Course we are.
但我们现在有理由认为她可能是凶手
But we now have reason to believe she may be the killer.
对 但温妮莎不知道这点
Yes, but Vanessa doesn't know that,
所以在她出来之前 我们都没事
so until she comes out, we're fine.
这就像那个哲学比喻一样 对吧
It's like that philosophy thing, isn't it?
如果一棵树在森林里倒下
If a tree falls in the woods
但是没有人在场听到
and there's no one there to hear it... No?
那树发出了声音吗
Does it make a sound?
当然
Yeah.
-她们不知道她们不知道什么 -对
- They don't know what they don't know. - No.
-那就让她们继续吧 -我也是这么说的
- So let them get on with it. - That's what I said.
如果她知道我们怀疑她了 她就不会开口了
If she knows we're onto her she'll stop talking.
在这里 看
Here we go. Look.
"凶手使用一条皮质腰带
"The killer, when using a leather belt,
向上勒住 并从背后紧勒" 看到了吗
pulled upwards and tightened from behind." You got that?
还有凶手"踩在受害人后脖颈上以方便施力"
The fact killer "stood on the base of the neck to gain purchase."
她说了
She said that.
是吗
Did she?
她说了"踩在他们的脖子上"
She said "stood on their neck."
好吧
Okay.
还有这个 罗眠乐
And this... Rohypnol?
"麦克斯·皮特斯在被勒杀之前
"Rohypnol was ingested by Max Peeters
服用了罗眠乐"
at, or prior to strangulation."
这个也没公开
That hasn't been disclosed?
等等 她怎么会有罗眠乐
Hang on. Why would she have had Rohypnol?
你感觉如何
How are you feeling?
想停一下 喝杯茶休息下吗
Want to stop, get a cup of tea, take a break?
我能帮你的有限
There's only so much more I can help you with.
不如就一口气做完吧
May as well press on till the end,
至少能给你一点帮助
providing this is useful to you in some way.
不 你做得很棒
No, it's great.
可不是嘛
You don't say!
我们再确认一下吧
Let's make triple sure.
这么说菲利普·布莱斯
So we've got Philip Bryce,
眼看就要因第二起谋杀案被起诉时
on the brink of being charged for his second murder,
我们发现了他不仅是无辜的
but we're now thinking not only is he innocent,
还有可能第一起凶案也不是他犯的
he might not have committed the first one either?
就是那起让他在11月份入狱的凶案
The one he was sent down for in November?
对
Yes.
然后他的妻子和温妮莎在谈话
Then we've got his wife in with Vanessa,
不小心供认了这一切
accidentally confessing to all of this,
而温妮莎还没意识到发生的这些事
and all without Vanessa realizing that's what's going on?
-对 -但是
- Yeah. - And yet...
温妮莎干得还很不错
Vanessa's actually doing a pretty great job?
对 是的
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
嗯 我就觉得你在电♥话♥里是这么说的
Yeah, I thought that's what you said on the phone.
我们只需要确定能采用她在里面说的话
We just got to make sure that we can use what she's saying.
如果她不知道自己在因凶案被问询的话
If she doesn't know she's being questioned for murder...
她不是因凶案而被问询 不是这样
She's not being questioned for murder. That's not the call.
除非我说是
Not until I've made it.
卢卡告诉你他要回意大利了吗
Did Luca tell you that he was going back to Italy?
没有 菲利普告诉我的
No, Philip told me.
那菲利普对此有什么想法 你还记得吗
How did Philip feel about that, can you remember?
他看起来
He seemed, um...
非常难过
surprisingly upset.
我感觉是这样
That was the impression he gave.
不过如果菲利普想让大家认为
Although if Philip wanted everyone to think
卢卡要回意大利的话
Luca was going back to Italy,
如果那是个障眼法的话
if that were some form of distraction
就像你说的那样 那么
like I think you're suggesting, then...
也许他的反应都是装的
maybe his reaction was just an act.
天哪 我不想那样去想 像他一样
Christ, I don't want to think like this. Like him.
没事 就快完了
It's okay, we're nearly done.
她们结束后
The minute they break,
你就把录像相关片段回放给我看
I want you cueing up the relevant bits of the tape.
不是我不相信你
It's not that I don't believe you,
只是我们必须仔细核对这些矛盾之处
but we need to double-check these contradictions. Is that okay?
然后我们就能以涉嫌谋杀卢卡·帕塞罗为由逮捕她
Then we can arrest her, at least for the murder of Luca Passero.
这样能给我们争取时间 想想怎么处理菲利普
That'll buy us time to work out what to do about Philip
还有麦克斯·皮特斯的凶案
and the murder of Max Peeters.
朱莉娅 如果菲利普喜欢这些男人
Why, Julia, if Philip liked these guys,
为什么还要杀了他们
would he have killed them?
因为他备受折磨
Because he was tortured.
这个可怜的男人舔着脸追求他们 但是
The poor man chased and chased, and...
这些漂亮的年轻小伙子根本不想理会
none of these beautiful young boys ever wanted to know.
这是他生活的常态了 所以他最后...
Story of his life, so he ended up...
他之前对我说过
He said all this to me once.
在多赛特的房♥子里 我们偶尔会去
In the house in Dorset where we sometimes go.
他向我坦白了
Let it all out.
"我的这些感受已经够糟糕的了
"It's bad enough I feel the things that I feel,
他们却连看都懒得看我一眼"
but they barely even look."
他对我这么说 带着巨大的
...he said to me, in this great...
无法抑制的自怜
outpouring of self-pity.
然后我说
To which I said...
"那么
"Well...
你觉得我是什么感受呢"
how do you think I feel?"
拒绝 这是我的想法
Rejection. That's my theory.
"如果我不能拥有他们 别人也不能"
"If I can't have them, no one can."
这些
This...
这些都很有用
This has all been very helpful.
谢谢
Thank you.
你非常坦诚
You've been honest...
勇敢
brave...
只可惜今天是周日
It's just a shame it's a Sunday
不然就会有更多人见证这一刻
and there aren't more people here to see it.
关于卢卡你还有什么想说的吗
Is there anything else that you want to tell me about Luca?
好 那我简单总结一下 你就可以走了
Right, well, then I'll quickly summarize and you're free to go.
好
Okay.
你在家里见到了卢卡
You met Luca at the house.
对
Yes.
你在9月28日和29日一个人去了布里斯托
You were alone in Bristol on 28th and 29th September.
对
Yes.
-菲利普没有去 -对
- Philip wasn't there. - No.
这事你妈妈可以证实 对吧
This is something your mother can confirm?
没错
Correct.
其实
Actually,
如果有用的话
if it helps,
我每次去看我妈时 都会在克里布堤道的
I always go into Boots at Cribbs Causeway
博姿药妆店拿上她的药