玫瑰之名（2019）

只是能明白她的意思而已
Just that I understand her.
好吧 我们明白她的方式是一样的
Yes, you understand her the way I understand her.
你叫什么
What's your name?
阿德索 你呢
Adso. And yours?
安娜
Anna.
-安娜 你为什么带着武器 -我要打猎
- Anna, why are you armed? - I'm hunting.
所以 你是打猎受伤的
So, I suppose you got hurt hunting?
你来这有你的理由 我有我的
You have your reasons to be here and I have mine.
修道院还有多远
How far is the abbey?
走马路一小时
One hour by the cart path.
走树林和山路快一些
Shorter through the trees and rocks.
欢迎各位
Welcome to all
来参加这场辩论 众所周知
to this debate which, as you know,
这场辩论对我们教会和我们信仰的未来至关重要
is essential to the future of our Church and of our religion.
关于守贫的辩题
On the question of poverty:
教会是否应该选择放弃所有的财富
should the Church choose to renounce all wealth?
切塞纳的米凯莱会长的带领的
Our brothers in the Franciscan Order,
方济各会的兄弟们
under the Generalship of Michele of Cesena,
于1322年在佩鲁贾
stated at Perugia in 1322
宣布了他们的信仰
their belief in the renunciation
即放弃对所有物质的所有权
of the ownership of all things material.
此后教皇约翰随机颁布谕旨
After that it was necessary for Pope John
《当某些人中间》
to issue the bull Cum inter nonnullos,
谴责方济各教义是异端邪说
in which the Franciscan doctrine is condemned as heretical.
我们不能接受那个决定
We cannot accept that decision.
我是巴斯克维尔的威廉的人 我是他的见习僧
I belong to William of Baskerville, I'm his novice.
教皇约翰明文写道
Pope John's bull says textually:
由于明显有悖圣经
any affirmation of an impoverished Church
从即日起
from this moment on
任何对苦行教会的肯定
must be held erroneous and heretical
必然视为歪理邪说
because it clearly contradicts Sacred Scripture.
违背圣经的思考也是邪恶的
It is evil even to think against Sacred Scripture!
皇帝是在利用你们 方济各修士们
The Emperor is using you, Franciscans.
他想诋毁教皇
He wishes to discredit the Pope
宣称他是和平的敌人
and calls him an enemy of peace.
并非如此
Not really.
事实上 是的
In substance, yes.
尊敬的院长
Reverend abbot.
我们方济各会认为
We Franciscans affirm that sacrifice,
放弃一切物品的所有权
be it private or public,
无论是私有的还有公有的物品
of ownership of all things
是值得称赞且神圣的
is meritorious and holy.
基♥督♥不仅在言语中如此教导我们
Christ taught this with his speech
还躬身力行 亲自示范
and confirmed it with his example,
展示了 通往完美之路
demonstrating the... the path of perfection.
就像圣保罗告诉我们的 只要食以果腹
As Saint Paul tells us, we have what we need to eat,
衣以蔽体
we have what we need to cover our nakedness.
这就够了 我们就很满足了
And this is enough, we are satisfied.
反驳这一理念才是异端
To contradict this is heresy!
你怎么敢这么说
How dare you?
人的所有权利
Every human right,
都是建立在拥有物质财富的基础之上
on the basis of which material goods are owned,
这是律法中规定的
is contained in the laws.
还是凡人时的基♥督♥
Christ as a mortal man,
自他在腹中坐胎起
from the moment of his conception,
就是尘世间的一切财富的主人
was owner of all earthly goods,
他成了神后 就从圣父那里
and, as God, he received from the Father
获得了对宇宙一切的主宰权
universal control over everything.
教皇是祂的继承人
The Pope is his heir.
《路加福音》第六章中说
Luke in chapter 6 says
基♥督♥放弃了自己的一切主宰权和圣主的身份
that Christ dismisses from himself all power and lordship,
《马太福音》第十九章中
and in Matthew, chapter 19,
彼得说为了跟从祂 他们撇下了一切
Peter asserts that to follow Him they left everything.
基♥督♥的一生
Surely the life of Christ
当然应该成为教会行为的典范
should be the model of behavior for the Church.
我们这些力图追随基♥督♥的人
Should we, who seek to follow Christ,
难道要允许自己分割物品的所有权吗
allow ourselves to divide up the ownership of things?
甚至于攫取土地 珠宝 房♥子和金钱
Or even to grab land and jewels and buildings and money
就好像我们的救赎
as if our salvation lay,
并非来自给所有人带去爱 正义与和平的善行
not in the spirit of love and justice and peace to all men,
而是来自财物赋予那些拥有者的
but in the dull and tarnished power
黯淡无光的权力
that possessions seem to confer upon those who lay claim to them?
你们方济各会组织武装
You Franciscans made armed attacks
袭击了多明我会的女修道院
on Dominican convents.
你们剥光与你们竞争的僧侣
You stripped naked your rival monks
强迫他们守贫
to impose poverty on them.
欧洲有三万名方济各修士
There are 30,000 Franciscans in Europe.
我们无法控制一小部分狂热分子的过分行为
We cannot control the excesses of a handful of fanatics!
"在那里 她看到上帝的手并不是满的"
"Uras Deus non plenas adspicit manus."
上帝的手是一干二净的 并不是满的
God looks at clean hands, not full ones.
你竟敢指责我们的手又脏又满
How dare you accuse us of hands full and dirty,
像放高♥利♥贷♥的人一样
like a usurer!
不 是你们先把基♥督♥
No, you are the one who compares Christ to...
和你们的主教相比的
to a prelate of your court,
你们这群混♥蛋♥
you sacks of shit!
请控制你们的语言
Moderate your language, please!
就是你们的异端作品启发了皇帝
These are examples of your heretical writings
你们就是受作品煽动的真实写照
that have inspired the Emperor!
毕竟他肯定不会受你的作品启发
He certainly won't be inspired by your writings
因为你没有文化
since you are illiterate!
我 没有文化
I? Illiterate?
你们的方济各就有文化
Was your Francis literate,
还跟鹅说话
he who spoke with geese?
那你们怎么解释
And what do you have to say
悔罪的神圣的赋税
about the taxae sacrae poenitentiariae
教皇利用宗教戒律的罪过
in which the Pope exploits the sins of the religious
榨取更多钱财
in order to squeeze out more money?
说话小心点 猪猡 婊♥子♥养♥的♥
Mind how you speak, pig, son of a whore!
这是你们教皇的原话
Here is what your Pope says:
"如果一个教士
"If an ecclesiastic commits a sin...
跟一个修女 一个亲戚
a carnal sin, with a nun, or with a relative,
或者任何一个女子犯下了肉♥欲♥之罪
or even with an ordinary woman,
只要交67个金币和12个便士就可以获得赦免
he can be absolved by paying 67 gold pieces and 12 pence.
如果是和同性
And if he commits bestiality,
就得交两百多金币
it is more than 200 pieces.
但如果只是和少年或是动物行肉♥欲♥
But if he has committed it only with youths or animals,
而不是和女人
and not with females,
那就只需要100金币"
the fine is reduced by 100!"
这是可耻的诽谤 你怎敢这么说
This is a shameful calumny! How dare you!
混♥蛋♥ 你们这些异端
Bastard! You heretic!
不 不 不 不 停手 兄弟们
No, no, no, no, no, please, brothers!
坐下
Be seated.
拜托了 停手
Please, please.
尊敬的兄弟们 别打了
Venerable brothers, please.
尊敬的兄弟们
Venerable brothers!
-尊敬的兄弟们 -放开我
- Venerable brothers! - Let me go!
明日晨祷后
We will return to our labors
我们再继续辩论
tomorrow morning after prayers.
但记住 我不会再容忍♥今天这种情况
But hear me: I will not tolerate another scene like today's.
任何越界的人都会被驱逐出去
Anyone who goes beyond the limits will be expelled.
要证明或否认基♥督♥的守贫观
Are there no better arguments
难道就没有更好的论据了吗
to prove or refute the poverty of Christ?
问题不在于基♥督♥是否贫穷
The question is not whether Christ was poor:
而是教会是否应该贫穷
it is whether the church must be poor.
而"贫穷"并不意味着物质匮乏或是贫困
And "poor" does not mean material want or poverty,
而是保留或放弃对于世俗财物
but rather it means keeping or renouncing the right
合法的拥有权
to legislate on earthly matters...
您发言时会不会说这些观点呢
Will you say this when you're called on to speak?
首先我得在他们互相残杀前争取开口
If I manage to speak before they kill one another!
我被困在两股相互对抗的势力之间
I am trapped between two opposing forces,