神迹待证（2021）

他们非常欢迎我 也很欣赏这些故事
they're very welcoming and they appreciate the stories,
但他们为我的灵魂担心 因为我愿意承认
but they worry about my soul because I'm willing to admit
自己是无神论者 这令他们难以理解
that I'm an atheist and they can't understand why.
如果我读到过1400个神迹 而且我愿意
If I've read 1400 miracles and I'm willing
称它们为奇迹 那我为什么还不相信上帝呢？
to call them miracles, why I haven't converted?
当我要完成关于这个主题的书时
The whole situation was a conundrum for me
整个情况对我来说成了一个难题
when it came to wrapping up my book on the subject.
我不知该如何给全书作结
Because I didn't really know how to end it.
有天晚上我和老板吃饭时 问题得到了解决
It got solved one night over dinner with my boss.
他说 我不喜欢你研究这个
He said, I don't like you working on this.
反正所有这些事都有自然的解释
All these things can be explained naturally anyway.
我说 不是这样的 因为对于早期的这些案例
And I said, well no, they can't because we can't go back
我们无法回到过去 并获取
and derive the diagnostic and clinical information
我们想要的诊断和临床信息
that we would want on these earlier cases.
这些人生活在他们自己的时代
These people lived in their own moment of time
他们已经尽了自己最大的努力
and they did the best they could with what they had.
我们不能回去用现在的方式去解释
We can't go back and explain them that way.
他说 那不重要
And he says. "Doesn't matter.
总是有自然解释的
There's always a natural explanation,
哪怕我们还没找到
even if we don't find it."
那一刻我突然意识到 而且能对他说
And I realized in that moment and was able to say to him,
这就是信念 因为你相信
that's a belief, because you believe
万物都有自然的解释
in a natural explanation for things,
即便没有证据支持自然解释
even in the absence of evidence of that natural explanation.
而有宗教信仰的人 他们相信
And they, the religious, believe
上帝的超越性
in the transcendence of God
相信祂对我们日常生活的真实干预
and the true intervention in our ordinary lives.
信仰本身就是一个奇迹
Faith itself is a miracle.
信仰治疗师要让怀疑论者信服
Well, what will convince a skeptic for a faith healer,
迈克尔·舍默 哲学博士
科学史 《怀疑论者》杂♥志♥
就需要对医治效果进行对照实验
healing somebody would be a controlled experiment.
我们不能只依赖传闻
We can't just use anecdotes.
我听说有个人去了
Oh boy I heard about this guy that he went
灵恩派教会 得了医治
to the Charismatic church and he was healed.
好吧 你当时在场吗？你看到了吗？
Okay, were you there? Did you see it?
不 我朋友在那里 他…
Well, no, my friend was there and he's ...
好吧 不 不 抱歉
Okay, no, no, sorry.
即使你看到了 你能确定自己
And even if you saw it, are you sure you're remembering
没记错吗
this correctly and so forth,
还有你说的得医治是什么意思？
plus what do you mean healed?
人们确实会因为各种与医生
People do get better for all sorts of reasons
或信仰治疗师无关的原因康复
that have nothing to do with doctors or faith healers.
人体本身就很擅长自我修复
The body's just really good at healing itself.
在我们看来 唯一的办法
From our perspective, the only way to know
就是进行对照实验
is to run a controlled experiment.
这是我们获得可靠知识的唯一途径
That's the only way that we have of reliable knowledge.
[乔舒亚] 当我谈论这些时
[Joshua] You know, people look at me like
人们看我的眼神就像我长了几个脑袋似的
I grew a few extra heads when I talk about this.
但我自己确实亲眼见过不少发生在
But personally I've seen a number of cases
乔舒亚·布朗 哲学博士
认知和神经系统学 GMRI
眼前的案例 比如有本来完全失明的人
right in front of me, of people who were, for example,
却能看清视力表上20 125的那一行
completely blind to reading a 20 125 line on the eye chart.
我也亲自检测过几乎完全
I've also personally measured individuals
失聪或完全失聪的人的听力
almost completely deaf or are completely deaf.
我目睹他们在短短几分钟内
And I've seen them in a matter of minutes,
听力损失下降到40分贝甚至更好
go down to 40 decibels of hearing loss or better.
在祷告的情境中 你在哪里检测人们的
Where are you measuring people's ears and sight
听力与视力？
in prayer settings?
[约书亚] 我指的是大约
[Joshua] I'm referring to a study
10年前我们在莫桑比克进行的一项研究
that we did in Mozambique about 10 years ago.
为什么你们想去莫桑比克？
What made you want to go to Mozambique?
我当时非常沮丧 因为追踪记录
I was so frustrated with the difficulty of tracking down
坎迪·冈瑟·布朗 哲学博士
宗教研究
祷告医治效果的尝试困难重重
even efforts to document healing through prayer.
莫桑比克
从某种意义上说 我是想摘低处的果子
I wanted to really pick low-hanging fruit in a sense.
我也想看看五旬节派
And I wanted to look at conditions
和灵恩派群体所宣称医治果效
for which some of the biggest claims were being made
最显著的一些病症
in the Pentecostal and Charismatic communities.
海蒂·贝克是在莫桑比克
Heidi Baker is a missionary
的宣教士 她在全球五旬节派
to Mozambique, who has a reputation globally,
海蒂·贝克 哲学博士
系统神学
和灵恩派中享有盛誉
among Pentecostals and Charismatics
因为她为人们的听力和视力祷告时
as seeing a lot of effects when she prays
尤其是在莫桑比克当地
for hearing and when she prays for vision,
人们看见很大的果效
especially when she's in Mozambique.
所以我带了一个由医生和科研专家
And so I took a research team of medical doctors
组成的研究团队前往莫桑比克
and research scientists with me to Mozambique.
我们跟随海蒂·贝克深入实地
And we followed Heidi Baker into the field,
进入她所说的“灌木丛深处”
into what she calls the bush-bush,
那些极少接触科技
very rural areas where people have had
和基♥督♥教教导的
a very limited exposure to technology
偏远乡村
or to Christian teachings.
她在那些地方做了很多福音工作
And that's where she does a lot of her evangelistic work.
贝克通常会在聚会一开始就把
Typically what Baker does is she calls up all of the blind
所有盲人和聋人叫上来
and the deaf at the very beginning of the service.
她承诺上帝会医治
And she makes a promise that God will heal
那些失明和失聪的人
those who are blind and those who are deaf
以此证明基♥督♥教的上帝是真实的
as proof that the Christian God is real
祂爱他们并会医治他们
and loves them and will heal them.
很多时候她是在穆♥斯♥林♥占多数的地区
A lot of the time she's in Muslim dominated areas.
在有非洲传统巫医的地区
She's in areas where there are traditional African healers
在那些地方 她做出这样的承诺
where this can actually be a rather dangerous thing
实际上相当危险
for her to be promising.
每个人被带上来接受祷告之前
Every single person who was brought up was tested
都要接受检测
before they received prayer.
他们接受祷告之后也是如此
And also after they received prayer.
海蒂·贝克为一位失明的女人祷告
我们检测人们的视力
We tested people's vision.
有个人刚开始时连一英尺（30厘米）
And we had someone who couldn't even count fingers
外的手指都数不过来
from a foot away when she started.
后来她的视力达到了
And then she was reading down
视力表上20 125那行
on the 20 125 line of the vision chart.
乔舒亚·布朗 哲学博士
认知和神经系统学 GMRI
所以视力达到了20 125
她两只眼睛都能看见了 视力达到20 125
[男人] 哈利路亚
[Man] Hallelujah.
几根手指
一根
现在呢
五根
哈利路亚
她说一开始自己只能看见一点
现在什么都能看见 “很多”
[乔舒亚] 从医学角度 我无法合理地解释
[Joshua] I have no good explanation, medically
为什么很多人会在几分钟内 从明显
for how a number of people would go from demonstrably
失明到看见 或者从明显
blind to seeing, or demonstrably deaf to hearing
失聪到听见
in a matter of a few minutes.
这是我们用来测试人们
This is a portable audiometer that we use
听力的便携式听力计
to test people's hearing.
所以我们有测试人们听力
And so we had equipment that was precisely designed
阈值的精密设备
to test people's hearing thresholds.
个人听力变化
完美听力
聋
听力阈值
祷告前
祷告后
我们确实发现了一些非常惊人且戏剧性的结果
We really found some quite surprising and dramatic results.
完美视力
个人视力变化
视力受损
祷告前
视力
祷告后
《南方医学杂♥志♥》
莫桑比克农村地区近距离代祷（STEPP）
对听觉与视觉障碍治疗效果的研究
我确实认为这是一个广阔的研究领域
I really see there as being a wide field of research
许多医生和科学家
that many medical doctors and scientists
可以在此富有成效地开展工作 因为
could productively engage with because there are
还有更多令人着迷的问题有待解答
many more fascinating questions that could be answered.
尤其是当我们同时使用患者
Particularly if we use both the narratives