神迹待证（2021）

但我看到的并不是客观证据
But what I wasn't seeing was objective evidence.
没有医生的报告
There weren't doctor's reports coming in.
我头脑里就在想
The critical part of my brain is going,
这些东西哪儿去了？
well where is this stuff?
经过两三年的时间 我们开始相信
Over a two or three year period we became convinced
我们需要去伯特利的事工学校学习
that we needed to go to the ministry school at Bethel.
所以我们卖♥♥掉了所有的东西 收拾好行李
And so we sold everything that we had and we picked up
搬到了加州
and moved out to California.
雷丁
在伯特利的时候 我听到了很多人
While I was at Bethel, I heard all of these testimonies
经历超凡神迹的见证
of people having extraordinary miracles.
大约在那个时候 我得知巴基
And about that time I had learned that Bucky
已经离开了信仰 因为他说
had left the faith because he had said,
这些东西没有证据
there's no evidence for this stuff.
他成为了一个无神论者
He's become an atheist.
田纳西州 查塔努加
跟我说说你的历程
Tell me about the process you went through,
你是如何走到
where you reached the point
不再信仰上帝这一步的
where you don't believe in God anymore.
巴基·巴克尔斯
前牧师
大概是我在这里做牧师的时候
It probably happened during my time being a pastor here,
我始终听不到上帝的声音
struggles with hearing from God.
我怀疑自己的祷告是否蒙垂听
Wondering if my prayers were being heard.
也没看到自己所期待的
Not saying the things I was hoping to see
上帝大能的彰显
regarding the power of God.
大概在一年的时间里
In probably about a year's time,
我大概为500人做过祷告
probably prayed for about 500 people.
可我没有看到任何一个祷告蒙应允
I don't think I saw one single prayer answered.
我为失聪的人祷告
I prayed for people who were deaf,
我为看不见的人祷告
I prayed for people who couldn't see,
为背痛的人祷告
prayed for people who had bad backs,
我祈求了那么多事 却没有看到一件
so many things and did not see one thing
我认为称得上是神迹
that I would consider to be a miracle
或得医治的事
or a healing in that regard.
所以 最后
And so at the end of that,
我决定不再做牧师了
I decided that I wasn't gonna be a pastor anymore.
如果继续怀着这样的心境做牧师 我自己
I would feel disingenuous to continue on being a pastor,
都会觉得虚伪
feeling that way.
所以在你人生的这个阶段 你得出的结论是
So at this point in your life, you've concluded,
没有上帝
there is no God.
有什么能让你改变这个看法吗
Is there anything that would convince you otherwise?
我想 如果我亲眼目睹有人
I suppose if I saw someone raised from the dead
从死里复活 而且我认识那个人
right before me and I saw that and I knew that person,
或者我知道他们的情况 并且得到了证实？
or I knew their condition and it's verified?
我不知道 也许吧
I don't know, maybe.
所以如果你能对那些相信神迹的人
So if you could say anything to people
说点什么 你会对他们说什么？
who believe in miracles, what would you tell them?
给我看证据
Show me the evidence.
我想看证据
I want to see it.
上帝的大能击中了我 我就立刻得医治了
The power of God hit me and I was instantly healed.
我的鼻窦通了 肺也清了
My sinuses cleared, my lungs cleared.
祷告结束时 她扔掉了助行器
By the end of that prayer time she threw her walker away
自己走出了房♥间
and walked out of the room.
他的脊髓被切断 颈部以下
His spinal cord had been severed and he had no ability
无法动弹
to move, neck down.
但他完全得医治了
And he was totally healed.
[比尔] 看到一个从未听过
[Bill] To see a little five year old girl
声音的五岁小女孩
who's never heard before,
突然之间耳朵打开了
when all of a sudden the ears open.
她开始环顾四周 留意那些
And she starts looking around at sounds
她这辈子从未听过的声响
that she's never heard before in her life.
对我来说那就足够了 我不需要看医生的报告
That's enough for me. I don't need to see a doctor's report.
[伊莱贾] 看到巴基放弃信仰后
[Elijah] After I saw Bucky abandon his faith,
我需要平息自己的疑问
I needed to put my own questions to rest.
如果这些人都得了医治
If all these people were getting healed,
证据在哪里？
where is the evidence?
如果没有证据
And if there was no evidence
我就知道自己相信的不过是虚妄
then I knew I was believing a delusion.
所以我决定自己去找证据
So I decided to go find it myself.
我建了一个网站 向经历过神迹的人们
I put up a website asking for people who've had miracles
征集医疗记录
to send in their medical records.
一位朋友将我引荐给了
And a friend of mine connected me
全球医学研究所（GMRI）
with the Global Medical Research Institute.
GMRI 是一个由学者和研究人员组成的团体
GMRI is a group of academics and researchers
他们希望理解与祈祷
who want to understand the nature
有关的医治的本质
of prayer related healings.
人们将他们的案例寄过来 GMRI会查看记录
People send in their cases and GMRI looks at the records
以确定发生了什么
to determine what happened.
那么为什么你们认为案例研究很重要呢？
So why do you think case studies matter?
为什么就不相信见证呢？
Why not just accept a testimony?
戴维·扎里茨基 医学博士
放射科医生 GMRI
因为有些见证是假的
Some testimonies are false.
有些见证被夸大了
Some testimonies are exaggerated.
我们进行案例研究 以证明
We do case studies to show
那些医治无法通过医学解释
that there's no medical explanation for the healing.
我有去一间教会 那里一直有人
I go to a church and there are claims
宣称通过祷告得到了医治
of healing through prayer all the time,
乔舒亚·布朗 哲学博士
认知和神经系统学 GMRI
比如瘫痪得医治 盲人
of a paralysis, of blind people
重见光明等等
getting their sight back or whatever.
我的疑问是 为什么这类事情如此
My question is, why is it so hard to get evidence
难以获得证据？
for this type of stuff?
[乔舒亚] 我们大概看过
[Joshua] We've looked through probably
几千个案例 一些人说
several thousand cases where somebody says,
哦 我有这样的病症 别人为我祷告
oh I had this medical condition and I got prayed for
然后神迹发生了
and a miracle happened.
这听起来很简单
And it sounds simple.
哦 我们只需要拿到一些医疗记录
Oh we'll just get some medical records
看看发生了什么 对吗？
and see what happened, right?
但实际上这是巨大的工作量
But it's actually a huge amount of work.
需要阅读大量的背景资料
And there's a lot of background reading
还要咨♥询♥专家
and consulting a specialist that happens.
一些事情难以被收录的原因有很多
There's a lot of reasons, frustrating to us all,
安德烈·范·摩尔 医学博士
家庭医学 GMRI
而且令我们所有人都感到沮丧
why certain things are hard to catalog.
那些经历过神迹的人
People that have experienced miracles
往往不愿费时费力去追溯过程
don't want the hassle of trying to retrace steps,
去找那些一开始就
going back to get proof from physicians
不太愿意帮忙或不友善的
that perhaps weren't super helpful
医生开证明
or kind in the first place.
生活中有很多原因导致人们
There's a lot of reasons in life that people
不想再承担额外的工作量
don't wanna follow through with additional workload.
毕竟问题似乎已经解决了
When the problem seems taken care of.
我经常发现 那些为医治
Often, I've found that the leaders
坎迪·冈瑟·布朗 哲学博士
宗教研究
而祷告的基♥督♥教事工领袖
of Christian ministries that pray for healing
声称在其事工中发生医治 却抵♥制♥
are resistant to efforts to validate the healings
验证那些医治的做法
that they claim occur in their ministries.
我相信超自然现象
You know, I believe in the supernatural,
我肯定有超自然现象
I affirm the supernatural.
我渴望看到越来越多的超自然现象
I desire to see more and more of the supernatural.
迈克尔·布罗德
牧师教练
但我认为 我们未能严格审视
But the degree to which we fail to scrutinize
虚假宣称的超自然现象
the false claims of the supernatural,
恰恰会损害我们对超自然现象的珍视
I think undermine our true value for the supernatural.
[奇] 有趣的是 耶稣本人
[Che] It's interesting how Jesus himself
甚至也遵循当时的规矩
even went by the rules of his day.
奇安
丰收磐石教会
如果一个麻风病人得了医治 他得先去
That if a leper got healed, he had to still go
找祭司查验 获得核实
show himself to a priest and get that verified.
祭司扮演的角色就像是医生
And the priest acted like a doctor and a physician