神迹待证（2021）

亲身经历的叙述与见证
and the testimonies of what people's experiences are.
并让它们与客观的医疗措施及
And we bring those into conversation with what the objective
医疗记录所呈现的内容进行对话之时
medical measures and what the medical records can show us.
[伊莱贾] 我一直热衷于在理智与
[Elijah] My passion has been to bridge the gap
超自然之间架起一座桥梁
between the intellectual and the supernatural.
我认为 像我自己这样的批判性思考者
I think people who are critical thinkers like myself,
往往会对灵恩的教导风格或体验
tend to be turned off to Charismatic teaching styles
望而却步 因为这些东西不是以我们能够
or experiences because those things are not communicated
消化的方式表达的
in a way that we can digest.
[詹姆斯] 19世纪中后期 美国
[James] In the mid to late 1800s there were three
有过三次大觉醒
great awakenings that took place in the United States.
这些大觉醒强调基♥督♥教是
These great awakenings emphasize that Christianity
关乎心灵与情感 而非思想的宗教
was a religion of the heart and feeling, not the mind.
结果他们退出了大学
As a result they withdrew from the universities
J. P. 莫兰德 哲学博士
哲学
不再关心思想
and didn't care about ideas.
大学当然也就变得世俗化了
And the universities of course became secular.
如今我们面临的局面是 聪明的群体
Now we have a situation where the smart people are secular
因为上大学而世俗化
because they go to the universities
而这恰恰是因为基♥督♥徒放弃了思想生活
and that's because Christians gave up the life of the mind.
[罗兰] 教育是一个有争议的话题
[Rolland] Education is a controversial subject,
在灵恩运动中尤其如此
especially in the Charismatic movement.
我曾经问重要的事工领袖
I've asked major ministry leaders,
罗兰·贝克 哲学博士
系统神学
人们需要教育吗？
you know, do people need education?
事实上 他们需要知道什么吗？
In fact, do they need to know anything?
有时我得到的回答是否定的
And I've sometimes got the answer no,
他们其实不需要
they don't actually,
圣灵完全有能力
the Holy spirit is fully capable
告诉他们到时候需要知道什么
of telling them what they need to know at the time.
所以我们真的不需要知道别的
And we really don't need to know anything else.
[比尔] 在整个教会历史上
[Bill] One of the mistakes that has been made
尤其是在过去的100年里 人们所犯的
throughout church history, especially the last 100 years,
比尔·强生
伯特利教会
一个错误就是认为
has been that when the people think
相信上帝的时候
that when they say yes to God,
他们必须舍弃自己的理智
they have to throw out their intellect.
但我认为信仰绝非如此
And I don't think faith is that way at all.
我认为信仰是通往最卓越智识
I think faith is the way to the greatest
的道路 因为它始于
intellectualism available because it begins
对上帝的认知
with the knowledge of God himself.
纵观历史 有太多
We have so many throughout history
杰出的医生 卓越的科学家
that we're really brilliant doctors, brilliant scientists.
他们确实在历史上留下了印记
They really made a mark on history.
但他们能够如此 是因为他们
but they did so with this solid conviction
对上帝的本性 祂的存在 和祂对人
to the nature of God, the existence of God,
的爱坚信不疑
His love for people.
当这样的信念成为根基时
And when that's the foundation,
你的潜能是无限的
it's really limitless where you can go.
[安德烈] 医学史学家H.E.西格里斯说 基♥督♥教
[Andre] Medical historian, H.E. Sigerist said, Christianity
是作为医治的宗教进入世界的
entered the world as the religion of healing.
罗马人对病人和垂死者的态度
And the Roman attitude like that of the ancient world
安德烈·范·摩尔 医学博士
家庭医学 GMRI
大体上与古代世界一样
in general, toward the sick and dying
基本上是排斥和拒绝
was basically revulsion and rejection.
基♥督♥教带来了同情和医治的机会
Christianity brought in compassion and a chance for healing.
医院是由基♥督♥徒开创的
Hospitals were started by Christians.
J.罗伯特·奥本海默说科学诞生于
J. Robert Oppenheimer said that science was born
基♥督♥教的世界观
out of the Christian worldview.
在所有科学领域中 受基♥督♥教影响最大的
Of all the fields of science, no field is more influenced
莫过于医学
by Christianity than medicine.
我们有各种各样的例子
We have all kinds of examples,
居维叶和比较解剖学
Cuvier and comparative anatomy,
李斯特和外科消毒法 巴斯德和细菌学
Lister, antiseptic surgery, Pasteur, bacteriology,
孟德尔和遗传学 甚至第一支疫苗的研发者
Mendel, genetics, and even the first vaccine
爱德华·詹纳医生
being Dr. Edward Jenner.
从某种意义上说 我们所谓的
In a manner of speaking, what we're calling
现代医学由我们开创 由我们发展
modern medicine started with us, advanced through us,
现在我们仍在继续
and we're continuing to do it now.
[伊莱贾] 在寻找证据
[Elijah] I got really discouraged
的过程中我感到非常沮丧
in my search for evidence.
我完全没想到这项工作会如此艰难
I didn't have a clue how difficult it would be
也没料到案例可能在这么多环节上站不住脚
and all the places where cases can fall apart.
如果有人得了医治 教会虽然会有人
If someone gets healed, someone at the church
记录那人的信息
gets that person's information,
但你通常无法再与那个人取得联♥系♥
oftentimes you can't get back in contact with the person.
好像神迹发生后
It almost feels like if a miracle happens,
你得在48小时内联♥系♥当事人
you've got 48 hours to contact that person
否则他们就会消失无踪
or they're gone.
你必须收集医疗记录
You have to collect the records
还得找到能真正解析
and then you need a medical professional
这些资料的医学专家
that can actually make sense of the data.
还要找到该领域里愿意查看这些
And find a specialist in that field who's willing
资料的专科医师
to look at the data.
另一个难题是保险公♥司♥
Another problem is insurance companies.
假设某位医生为患者做了
Let's pretend for a moment that a doctor had done
肾脏手术 切除了一个肾
an operation for kidney, taking a kidney out
有人为那个人祷告
and someone prays for that person.
然后那个肾又长了回去
And that kidney grows back.
如果你回头找那位医生说
If you go back to that doctor and said hey,
我们检查下这个肾脏吧
let's look at this kidney.
给我手术前后的X光片
Give me some X-rays of before and after.
那个医生不会愿意配合的
That doctor doesn't want to work with you
因为这会让他看起来很可疑
because it will make him look bad,
好像他之前骗了保险公♥司♥似的
as if he conned someone to an insurance company.
他或她的行医执照可能因此面临风险
His medical license, or her medical license may be at risk.
还有自然主义的普遍趋势
Also there's this general trend of naturalism
如果你相信超自然事件可能发生
in which you are looked down upon if you believe
就会遭到鄙视
that the supernatural can occur.
所以这是整个文化在起作用
And so there's this whole culture at play
导致医疗界正在阻碍
where the medical community is working against
真♥相♥的发现
finding truth.
[戴维] 伊莱贾 进展怎么样？
[David] Elijah, how's it going?
戴维·扎里茨基医生（GMRI放射科医生）的声音
进展还不错 我还在继续找
It's going pretty well, I'm still on the hunt.
[戴维] 关于布鲁斯·范·纳塔的案例
[David] I'm afraid I've got some bad news for you
恐怕我有坏消息要告诉你
regarding the Bruce Van Natta case.
[伊莱贾] 好吧
[Elijah] Okay.
尽管他的医疗记录显示
Even though his medical records suggest
祷告后小肠有所延长
that the small intestines lengthened after prayer,
但我们还需要更精确的检测
we need a more accurate test.
好吧
Alright.
所以我们联♥系♥了几家学术医疗项目
So we have called several academic medical programs
得知目前还没有影像学研究能够
and there isn't an imaging study now that can accurately
准确测量小肠的长度
measure the small bowel length.
所以你的意思是 在重新测量布鲁斯的
So what you're saying is that we can't publish
小肠长度之前 我们无法发表他的案例
Bruce's case until we remeasure his intestines
可现在都还没有实现这种测量的技术？
and the technology doesn't even exist yet to do that?
[戴维] 是的 我知道这不是你
[David] Yeah, I know this isn't the news
希望听到的消息
you wanted to hear.
我真的很感谢你告诉我
I really appreciate the call.
我想感谢你们的辛勤工作
And I just wanna thank you for all your hard work.
[戴维] 没什么 祝你好运
[David] All right, best of luck.
好的 再见
Okay, bye.
有段时间 我因为缺乏证据
There was a point where I was getting so discouraged
而感到非常灰心 几乎要放弃了
from the lack of evidence that I pretty much gave it up.
我当时就想 我没法继续做这事了
And I'm like, I'm just not doing this anymore.
实在太难了
This is too hard.
[艾莉森] 伊莱贾向我讲述过他的童年和遭受的虐待
[Alison] Elijah has told me about his childhood and abuse.
他每天都在与创伤后应激障碍作斗争
On a daily basis he struggles with PTSD.
有些日子他还不错