纽伦堡（2025）

The SS carried out arrests.
党卫军实施了逮捕。
They handled the transportation of people to the concentration camps.
他们负责，把犯人运送到集中营。
Can you not recall a time
你还记得
when the SS began to perform the function of acting
as the executor of the Nazi party?
党卫军何时开始履行，“纳粹党执行者”的职能吗？
It would be very difficult for me to explain to an outsider
whether the SS or whether the Gestapo may or may not be active.
我很难向外人解释，党卫军或盖世太保，是如何活动的。
Try.
试着解释。
Perhaps as the police came more and more into the hands of Himmler,
也许，随着警♥察♥力量越来越多地，掌握在希姆莱手中，
expectations may have changed.
原来的预期设想，可能发生了改变。
And, of course, it is well known that some SS units were
guarding the camps and later performed some police functions.
当然，众所周知，一些党卫军部队守卫着集中营，后来还执行了一些警♥察♥职能。
And carried out other functions in the camps?
在集中营里执行其他职能吗？
To what functions do you refer?
你指的是什么职能？
They carried out all of the functions of the camps, didn't they?
他们执行了集中营的所有职能，不是吗？
If an SS unit was guarding a camp,
如果党卫军部队守卫集中营，
and an SS leader was the camp commandant,
而党卫军指挥官，就是集中营的指挥官，
send it to the rational to assume
那么，合理地推断，
that they would have carried out all of the functions of the camp.
他们承担了集中营的所有职能。
让他把话说完。
You have said that you wanted a strong German state to overcome
the conditions of Versailles, is that correct?
你说过，你们想要一个强大的德国，来解决《凡尔赛条约》的条款，对吗？
We wanted a strong German state, regardless of Versailles.
不管有没有《凡尔赛条约》，我们都想要一个强大的德国。
The first country to be absorbed by Germany
第一个被德国吞并的国家，
was Austria, but it had not been part
of Germany before the First World War,
就是奥地利，但它在第一次世界大战之前，并不是德国的一部分，
and it had not been taken from Germany by
the Treaty of Versailles, is that correct?
而且它也没有被《凡尔赛条约》从德国夺走，对吗？
That is not entirely correct.
这并不完全正确。
The second territory taken by Germany was
Bohemia, then Moravia, and then Slovakia.
德国占领的第二个领土是波希米亚，然后是摩拉维亚，然后是斯洛伐克。
These were not taken from Germany by the Treaty of Versailles,
这些不是根据《凡尔赛条约》从德国拿走的，
nor had they been part of Germany before the First World War, had they?
它们在第一次世界大战之前，也不是德国的一部分，不是吗？
These parts of Czech territory
这些捷克领土的一部分，
were not part of the smaller German Reich
at the time of the Treaty of Versailles.
在《凡尔赛条约》签订时，是不属于那个“变小的”德意志帝国。
However, formally, they were united to the German Reich
for hundreds of years.
然而，按照传统，他们与德意志帝国联合在一起，已有数百年了。
- You still have not answered my question.
-I have answered your question.
-你还没有回答我的问题。 -我已经回答了你的问题。
If the facts do not suit you,there is very little I can do.
如果你不顾事实，我也无能为力。
Can you not answer yes or no?
你就不能回答，“是”或“不是”吗？
Time may not mean quite as much to you as it does to the rest of us.
时间，对你来说，可能不像对我们其他人，那么重要。
Mr. Justice, the tribunal thinks the witness ought to
be allowed to make what explanations he thinks right.
法官先生，法庭认为，应该允许证人作出，他认为正确的解释。
I trust that the court is not unaware
that outside of this courtroom
我相信法庭不会不知道，就在这个法庭之外，
is a great social question regarding the revival of Nazism,
有一个关于纳粹主义复兴的，重大社会问题，
and that one of the purposes of declaring is to encourage
而这也是被告戈林的目的之一，就是通过
and perpetuate it by propaganda from this trial now in process.
对目前正在进行的审判的宣传，来鼓励和延续这一社会问题。
-This witness has adopted in the witness box
and the prisoner's dock
-法官先生... -这位证人，在证人席上和被告席上，
an arrogant and contemptuous attitude
towards this tribunal, which is giving him
对这个法庭，采取了傲慢和轻蔑的态度，
the opportunity of a trial,
这个法庭，给了他一次受审的机会，
which he never gave a living soul.
而他，从未给这次审判，交出一颗活生生的心灵。
The ruling stands, Mr. Justice.
裁决有效，法官先生。
I must of course bow to the ruling of the tribunal
当然，我必须服从法庭的裁决，
and would simply request that the witness
find a way to keep his answers succinct.
只要求证人设法使他的回答，简明扼要。
Could you please repeat the question?
你能重复一下问题吗？
They were not taken from you by the Treaty of Versailles,
它们不是被《凡尔赛条约》，从你们那里，夺走的，
where of course Austria was taken by the Versailles Treaty
and also through Detenland.
奥地利当然是被《凡尔赛条约》夺走的，还包括苏台德地区。
For both these territories would have been German territories
for the simple rights of the people to self-determination.
只要简单地看一下人♥民♥的自决结果，这两个地区，本来就是德意志的领土。
I find that interesting,
我觉得这很有趣，
considering you just testified that people's
self-determination was the first thing you took away.
考虑到你刚刚作证所说的“人们的自决权”，就是你们夺走的第一件东西。
From the very beginning,
从一开始，
you regarded the elimination of Jews from the economic life of Germany
你们把犹太人，从德国的经济生活中，清除出去，
as one phase of the four-year plan
under your jurisdiction. Is that correct?
作为你管辖的“四年计划”的一个阶段。对吗？
Partially correct.
部分正确。
Partially. I see.
部分的。我懂了。
I would like to review with you briefly
public acts taken by you in reference to the Jewish question.
我想和你简要回顾一下，你在犹太人问题上，采取的公开行动。
First, did you proclaim the Nuremberg Laws?
首先，你是否宣布了《纽伦堡法案》？
Yes, I did.
是的，我宣布了。
As president of the Reichstag, that was my job.
作为国会议长，这是我的职责。
What date was that?
那是什么日子？
The 15th of September, 1935.
1935年9月15日。
And on the first day of December 1936,
在1936年12月的第一天，
you passed an act making it a death penalty for Germans
to transfer property abroad?
你们通过了一项法案，将德国人转移财产到国外的行为，定为死刑？
That is correct.
这没错。
That was the decree governing restriction on foreign contracts.
那是关于限制外汇流通的法令。
And on April 22, 1938,
随后，1938年4月22日，
you published penalties within the Reich.
你在帝国内公布了惩罚，隐匿犹太公♥司♥的活动。
Concealing.
“隐匿”，是的。
Then on April 26, 1938,
1938年4月26日，
you signed a decree ordering the registration of
all Jewish property inside and outside of Germany.
你签署了一项法令，要求登记德国境内外，所有犹太人的财产。
If it is signed by me... Then a decree on November 12, 1938
-如果是我签的… -然后是1938年11月12日的法令，
imposing a fine of one billion Reichsmarks for atonement on all Jews.
对所有犹太人，处以10亿马克的罚款，用以赎罪。
And that all damages caused to Jewish property
- 是的，但这... -并且犹太人必须立即，将他们在1938年骚乱期间，
保险公♥司♥赔偿犹太财产损失的保险理赔金额，转交给帝国。
are many details here.
这里有太多的细节。
-The insurance company...
-And the decree on the 17th of September 1940
-保险公♥司♥... -还有1940年9月17日颁布的法令，
ordering the sequestration of all Jewish property in Poland.
该法令要求对波兰境内的，所有犹太人财产，进行没收。
Yeah, in that part of Poland that was a former
German province and would return to Germany.
是的，在波兰的那片地区曾是德国的属地，之后又会回归德国管辖。
根据1941年7月31的法令，
A decree asking Himmler and Heydrich
你的一份命令，要求希姆勒和海德里希，
to make plans for the final solution of the Jewish question.
制定的关于解决犹太人问题的“最终方案”。
That is not correct.
不是这样的。
I know that decree very well.
我很清楚那项法令。
I ask that you show the document number 1110,exhibit number USA509.
我要求向你出示文件编号♥710、证物编号♥为 USA509 的那份文件。
I think it should be read into the record so
we may have no argument about its translation.
我认为应当将其记录在案，这样，我们可以避免在翻译问题上，产生争议了。
That document is signed by you, is it not?
那份文件是你签的，对吗？
Is that just correct?
这点没错。
Please correct me if I am wrong.
如果我说错了，请指正我。
Supplementing the task that was assigned to you on 1-24-1939,
“除了在 1939 年1月24日分配给你们的任务内容，
which dealt with arriving at through furtherance of immigration and,
in fact, the evacuation.
“其内容涉及，通过促进移♥民♥，以及实际上的驱逐行动来，实现这一目标。
A solution of the Jewish problem as advantageous as possible,
“尽可能有利地解决，犹太人问题，
I hereby charge youwith making all necessary preparations in
regards to organizational and financial matters
“我特此要求你们，做一切必要的组织和财政准备，
for bringing about a final solution of the Jewish question.
“为实现，犹太问题“最终解决”方案。”
He's got them.
他抓住他了。
Am I correct so far?
到目前为止，我说的对吗？
No, your translation is not correct.
不，你的翻译不对。
Then please give us your translation.
那么好，请给我们，你的翻译。
Supplementing the task which was entrusted
to you in the decree dated January 21, 1939
“除了在1939年1月24日法令，赋予你们的任务外，
to solve the Jewish question by immigration and evacuation
为了通过移♥民♥和疏散，解决犹太问题，
in the most favorable way possible.
Given present conditions,I hereby commission you
并以最有利的可行方式。 考虑到当前形势，我因此命令你们，
to carry out all necessary preparations with regard to
organizational substantive and financial viewpoints.
做好一切必要的组织上、实质上和财政上的准备。”
Now, here is the sentence
下面，句子是这样翻译的，
for a complete solution,
为了一个“全面的解决”，
not a final solution,
不是“最终解决”，
for a total solution of the Jewish question.
是对犹太问题的全部解决。
A complete and total solution.
一套“全面完整的解决”。
Complete and total, yeah.
全面而完整，是的。
A complete and total solution you wanted the chief of the SS to enact.
你想让党卫军首领，制定一个“全面而完整”的解决方案。
Yeah, but I would like to make an explanation.
是的，但我想做个解释。
Oh, please do.
哦，悉听其详。
I sent this letter to Himmler and to Heydrich
我把这封信，寄给希姆莱和海德里希，
because it was some 18 months now since the
declaration of the 24th of January, 1939
因为从1939年1月24日的宣布，到写信那时，已经有18个月了，
and Heydrich had achieved very little.
海德里希几乎没有取得什么成果。
So I charged him to accelerate the task of
dealing with the immigration of the Jews.
因此，我责成他加快处理，犹太人移♥民♥问题的工作。
Immigration, you contend was about immigration?