419爆炸案实录（2024）

[桑德斯] 格伦和我有很多疑问。
After the bombing,they started the biggest manhunt
in American history for John Doe Number 2.
爆♥炸♥发生后，他们开始了美国历史上，最大规模的搜捕“二号♥无名氏”的行动。
And then they called it off.
然而接着，他们就取消了行动。
[Jones] The government originally described two men.
[琼斯] 政♥府♥最初描述的是两个人。
They had the sketches of them.
他们有他们的模拟画像。
And there were numerous credible people
in downtown Oklahoma City just before the bombing
在爆♥炸♥发生前的俄克拉荷马市中心，有很多可靠的人，
that claimed that they saw McVeigh and someone else.
声称他们看到过麦克维和其他人。
The government then,about 30 days later,
said there isn't any John Doe 2.It was a mistake.
大约30天后，政♥府♥说，没有什么“无名氏”。这是个错误。
We had learned enough by then
that we knew there was something wrong.
到那时，我们已经了解了足够多的情况，知道有些事情不对头。
Twenty-two eyewitnesses told the FBI
they saw McVeigh downtown the morning of the bombing,
22名目击者告诉联邦调查局，他们在爆♥炸♥发生的那天早上，看到麦克维在市中心，
and they all saw him with someone else.
他们都看到，他和另一个人在一起。
This is Michael Moroz's testimony
about McVeigh pulling up at Johnny's Tire Shop.
这是迈克尔.莫罗兹关于麦克维在约翰尼轮胎店停车的证词。
[Moroz] There was definitely a second person.
[莫罗兹] 肯定有第二个人。
He had dark hair,maybe a dark complexion.
他有一头黑发，可能肤色也很黑。
（目击者，迈克尔.莫罗兹）
He wasn't fair-skinned.I'm fair-skinned.
他不是白皙的皮肤。我是白皮肤的。
I can tell the difference between fair and dark skin.
我能分辨出，白皙皮肤和深色皮肤的区别。
[Sanders] They brought him in.
[桑德斯]他们把他带进来了。
He picks McVeigh out of the lineup,
他把麦克维从名单中挑了出来，
and he tells them there was the man in the ball cap
in the passenger side of the truck.
告诉调查人员，那个戴棒球帽的人，坐在卡车的副驾驶座上。
I did get a lot of flak from the families and survivors
when I wanted to find out about the others involved.
当我想调查其他人卷入此案时，我确实遭到，来自家属和幸存者的很多抨击。
To try and point the blame at somebody else besides
the people who parked the truck out front is irresponsible.
除了把卡车停在（大厦）门口的人，还试图找其他人来担责，这是不可靠的（推论）。
（莎朗.科因，14个月的婴儿杰西.瑞伊的母亲）
There are unanswered questions that we want answers to.
我们想知道一些，未解之谜的答案。
I know that Melissa and Sharon have expressed views
我知道，梅丽莎和莎朗表达了，自己的观点，
that they think all the truth will come out in the trial.
她们认为所有的真♥相♥，都会在审判中，大白于天下。
What do you think the truth is in all of this?
你觉得，这一切的真♥相♥是什么?
Do you support your parents that there are
many other people involved?
你支持，你的父母认为有很多其他人，参与其中吗?
Definitely. I believe what they're doing
is the right thing,they're gonna find the truth,
绝对相信。我相信，我爸妈所做的是正确的，他们会找到真♥相♥的，
and then when they find out the truth
and, um, and everybody knows what's been going on,
等他们发现真♥相♥，大家都知道发生了什么事，
then we can put this all behind us.
然后，我们才能释怀。
科罗拉多，丹佛市
[reporter] A federal judge has moved the Oklahoma bombing trial to Denver,
[记者] 一名联邦法官，将俄克拉荷马州爆♥炸♥案的审判，移至丹佛市，
saying the defendants can't get a fair trial in Oklahoma.
并说，被告在俄克拉荷马州，无法得到公平审判。
The judge said that outweighs the wishes of victims' families
who wanted the trial in Oklahoma,
法官表示，这虽然超出了受害者家属，希望在俄克拉荷马市进行审判的意愿，
making it easier for them to attend.
但会让他们，更容易去法庭旁听。
What happened April 19th, 1995,I don't want anybody to ever forget.
1995年4月19日发生的事，我不想让任何人忘记。
[Kimble] In the beginning,I started drinking,
[金贝尔] 起初，我开始酗酒，
and one night walking back to the bedroom,
一天晚上，我走回卧室，
（玛莎.金贝尔）
I passed out and cracked my head open.
我昏倒了，把头都撞破了。
And I thought at that time I'd better find
something positive to do or I'm going to kill myself.
我当时想，我最好找一些积极的事情做，否则我会自杀的。
So I started a group called Families and Survivors United.
所以，我成立了一个名为“遇难与幸存者家庭联合会”的组织。
The pre-trial hearings started.
审前听证会开始了。
Judge Matsch said, "Okay,you can be in this courtroom,
马奇法官说，“好吧，你可以在这个法庭上，
but if you want to give an impact statement,
但如果你想发表，影响审理的陈述，
you better leave,because you can't do both."
你最好离开，因为你不能两者兼顾。”
I said, "Wait a minute.I have a right to be in that courtroom."
我说:“等一下。我有权出现在法庭上。”
On April the 19th, 1995,
1995年4月19日，
the bomb that shattered the Alfred P. Murrah Building
in Oklahoma City also shattered my life.
炸毁俄克拉荷马城阿尔弗雷德.P.默拉大厦的炸♥弹♥，也炸毁了我的生活。
The victims' lobby in the Oklahoma City bombing
was so powerful that they actually got a law passed.
俄克拉荷马城爆♥炸♥案的“受害者游说团”非常强大，他们甚至通过了一项法律。
[Kimble] It was a miracle.
[金贝尔] 这是一个奇迹。
It went through the House and Senateand was signed by Clinton in two days.
该法案经过了参众两院的审议，并在两天内由克♥林♥顿♥签署。
[Ann Curry] Prosecutors in the Oklahoma City bombing case
have a valuable new witness,Michael Fortier.
[安妮.克里]俄克拉荷马城爆♥炸♥案的检察官有了一位宝贵的新证人，迈克尔·弗提耶。
[Ricks] At first,
[里克斯] 一开始，
Michael Fortier refuses to cooperate.
迈克尔·弗提耶拒绝合作。
But he's got a wife that's pregnant.
但他的妻子怀孕了。
He makes a deal that he will fully cooperate
as long as Lori doesn't go to prison.
他答应，只要洛莉不进监狱，他就会全力配合。
[reporter] Fortier said, "McVeigh told me he wanted to bomb
the building on the anniversary of Waco,
[记者] 弗提耶说:“麦克维告诉我，他想在‘韦科周年纪念日’炸毁这栋大楼，
April 19th,
在四月19日，
and that the bombing would trigger a second American Revolution."
这次爆♥炸♥，将引发了‘第二次美国革命’。”
McVeigh confided everything in him.
麦克维把一切，都向他吐露了。
（艾坦.戈尔曼，前美国司法部长助理）
And-- and to Lori.
还有...还有洛莉。
[Toobin] The most memorable moment in the trial to me
[图宾]对我来说，审判中最难忘的时刻，
was when Lori Fortier talked about Timothy McVeigh
是洛莉·弗提耶谈到蒂莫西·麦克维
getting Campbell's Soup cans out of the kitchen cabinet
从厨房♥橱柜里拿出金宝汤罐头，
and laying out how he was going to arrange
the barrels of explosives in the truck.
并陈述他将如何，在卡车上布置炸♥药♥桶。
It was so real. It was so vivid.
这太形象，太生动了。
It was the kind of thing you couldn't make up if you wanted to.
这种事，是你想编，也编不出来的。
I sat with Michael Fortier for hundreds of hours.
我和迈克尔·弗提耶坐了几百个小时。
I know everybody who was called on the phone card.
我认识了，在我们称之为，“焦点电♥话♥卡”上的所有人。
When you ask me why I'm so confident that we got the right guys
and that there's no one else kind of out there,
当你问我，为什么如此确信，我们找到了正确的案犯，而没有其他人，逍遥法外的时候，
it's because of things like Fortier and the phone card.
是因为掌握了弗提耶和电♥话♥卡之类的事。
This was the government's version of the case,
这是政♥府♥对此案的说法，
that the Spotlight calling card is the sum and substance
of McVeigh and Nichols' contacts,
这张“焦点电♥话♥卡”归了包堆，其实就是麦克维和尼科尔斯的联♥系♥，
and it doesn't disclose any co-conspirators.
而它没有透露任何“同谋者”。
[Coulson] I've seen 302s.
[考尔森] 我看见过302号♥证物。
302s are a report by the FBI.
302号♥是联邦调查局提供的一份报告。
Private citizens have said the morning of the bombing
有市民说，在爆♥炸♥发生的那天早上，
they saw somebody else in that truck with McVeigh.
他们看到有其他人，和麦克维一起在卡车里。
That's very troubling to me.
这让我很困扰。
And I will tell you why I think that never got followed up.
我会告诉你，为什么我认为，这没有得到跟进。
Had they introduced that and followed that line of investigation,
如果他们引入了这条线索，并按照这条线索进行调查，
that would have diminished his culpability.
就会减轻他的罪责。
The defense didn't bring it up
because it's one more witness that says McVeigh was there.
辩方没有提起，是因为又多了一个证人，能证明麦克维在场。
We didn't call any of the eyewitnesses
because their testimony would have been damaging to McVeigh.
我们没有传唤任何目击者，因为他们的证词，会对麦克维不利。
To call them, we're establishing
that McVeigh was in downtown Oklahoma City
要传唤他们，我们要确定，麦克维当时在俄克拉荷马市中心，
when the government's case was largely circumstantial that he was there.
而政♥府♥的案子主要是推测，他在那里。
[reporter] The sister of bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh
[记者] 爆♥炸♥案嫌疑人蒂莫西·麦克维的妹妹表示，
says she's sorry she has to cooperate with prosecutors
in the case against her brother.
很抱歉，她不得不配合检察官，起诉她哥哥。
[Jennifer] I think he's been unfairly demonized.
[詹妮弗] 我认为他被妖魔化了。
He's just a normal person.He's...
他只是个普通人，他…
not this evil thing they're painting him to be.
不是他们描绘的，那个邪恶的人。
[reporter] She says FBI agents frightened her into cooperating
by threatening her with prosecution.
[记者] 她说，联邦调查局探员，威胁要起诉她，迫使她合作。
[Wilkinson] I was responsible for trying to
prepare Jennifer McVeigh as a witness.
[威尔金森] 我负责让詹妮弗·麦克维做证人的准备工作。
Jennifer McVeigh's testimony,
詹妮弗·麦克维的证词，
I think, was dramatic from beginning to end because of who she was.
我认为，她从头到尾都很戏剧化，就因为她的身份。
She said when she heard about the bombing,
她说，当她听到爆♥炸♥的消息时，
she immediately had this eerie feeling
that she knew that her brother might have been involved.
她立刻有了一种“诡异”的感觉，她知道，她的哥哥可能与爆♥炸♥有关。
We did our best.
我们尽了力。
We put all of our energy and effort into it,
and we'll wait and see what the jury says.
我们投入了所有的精力和努力，我们会等着，看陪审团怎么说。
[O'Donnell] Giving the court case number
for The United States v. Timothy James McVeigh.
[奥唐纳尔] 这是联邦政♥府♥起诉蒂莫西·詹姆斯·麦克维的案件编号♥。
Guilty.Guilty on all 11 counts.
有罪。11项罪名全部成立。
[Jones] It's as though Tim wanted us to fail.
[琼斯] 就好像，蒂姆想让我们失败似的。
He wanted to say, "I did it."
他就想说，“是我♥干♥的。”
But first,he wanted the jury trial just in case he got off.
但首先，如果他想脱罪，他想让陪审团审判。
But then when he didn't get off,
then he wanted the fame,or infamy, that he did it.
但当他无法逃脱惩罚时，他就会想要名声，或者耻辱，因为他做了这件事。
I went to Tim, and I said,
我去找蒂姆，对他说，
"Tim, I need to tell you that I'm not...
the lawyer you need for the appeal.
“蒂姆，我得告诉你，我不是...你需要的“上诉律师”。
I'm going to seek to withdraw."
我将寻求退出。”
I told him that I had figured out
where he had lied and the proof that he had lied.
我告诉他,我已经发现了，他在哪些方面撒了谎，和他撒谎的证据。
And when I finished, he said,
当我说完，他说，
"How would the truth help me?"
“真♥相♥，对我有什么帮助?”
And I mistakenly said, "I don't know that it would."
我当时错误地说道:“我不知道，会不会有帮助。”
[Wilkinson] People forget that a prosecution is not there
[威尔金森]人们忘记了，诉讼并不是为了