419爆炸案实录（2024）

[Sanders] At Terry Nichols' trial,
he was not like Timothy McVeigh at all.
[桑德斯]在特里·尼科尔斯的审判中，他一点也不像蒂莫西·麦克维。
He didn't make eye contact with anyone.
他没有和任何人，进行眼神交流。
He was always looking down.
他总是往下看。
When the judge had a recess,
I saw this little lady standing out in the hall.
当法官休庭时，我看到这位矮小女士，站在大厅里。
I realized it was Terry Nichols' mother.
我意识到，这是特里·尼科尔斯的母亲。
I walked up to her.I said, "I'm Kathy Wilburn."
我走向她。我说:“我是凯西·威尔伯恩。”
She begins to cry and said,"I know who you are.
她开始哭着说:“我知道你是谁。
I've seen you on TV."
我在电视上见过你。”
And I put my arms around her,and I said,
"Well, I want you to know how sorry I am for your family."
我搂着她说:“我想让你知道，我为你家的事感到难过。”
And then we went back in the courtroom and I just sat down with her.
然后我们回到法庭，我和她坐了下来。
It was like Terry Nichols,the bomber,
became my friend Joyce's son.
就这样，那个“炸♥弹♥客”，特里.尼科尔斯的妈妈，乔伊斯，成了我的朋友。
The jury thought he was guilty,
but they didn't know how guilty.
陪审团认为他有罪，但他们不知道，他有多严重的罪名。
They had questions just like I did.
他们和我一样有“疑问”。
[reporter] The jury found Nichols guilty of only conspiracy
and involuntary manslaughter.
[记者] 陪审团只认定，尼科尔斯犯有共谋罪，和过失杀人罪。
Nichols won't get the death penalty for his federal conspiracy conviction.
尼科尔斯不会因阴谋反对联邦罪，而被判死刑。
There are other people out there,
案件之外，还有其他（嫌疑）人，
（妮基.多伊奇曼，陪审团女陪审长）
and decisions were probably made very early on that Tim McVeigh
and Terry Nichols were who they were looking for,
只是一开始，他们就决定要调查蒂姆.麦克维和特里.尼科尔斯的犯罪证据，
and the same sort of resources were not used
to try to find out who else might be involved.
同样的搜查资源，一点儿都没有用在调查，是否有其他人涉案上。
[Sanders] A few days after the trial, I had a letter.
[桑德斯] 审判几天后，我收到了一封信。
Return address was Terry Nichols.
回信地址是特里·尼科尔斯。
And I thought, "Mm, you know,I'm not looking for a pen pal.
我想，“嗯，你知道，我不是在找笔友。
And if I was, it wouldn't be the Oklahoma City bomber."
如果我是，那也不会是俄克拉荷马城的“炸♥弹♥客”。”
And then it kind of like dawned on me,
然后，我忽然意识到，
"Well, who's going to know more about the bombing
than the bomber himself?"
“有谁会比“炸♥弹♥客”自己，更了解爆♥炸♥案呢？”
We started writing back and forth.
我们开始来回写信。
[Coss] The Terry Nichols relationship,
I still don't really understand it.
[科斯] 特里·尼科尔斯的人际关系，我还是不太明白。
I frequently tell my mom,
and when we do presentations around the United States,
当我们在美国各地做演讲时，我经常跟我妈妈说，
(丹尼尔.科斯，前俄克拉荷马市警官)
that if I ever saw Terry Nichols
and we were in a room together for five minutes,
假如，让我碰见特里.尼科尔斯，我们只在一个屋子里，呆上五分钟，
I'd be the only one that comes out.
我就会是，唯一走出房♥间的那个人。
[Sanders] I have forgiven, yes.
[桑德斯] 我已经宽恕了， 是的。
Do I think people should be punished? Yes.
我认为，那些人应该受到惩罚吗？ 是的。
Forgiveness and punishment are two different things.
宽恕和惩罚是两回事。
I want everybody involved in this to be accountable.
我希望，所有参与此事的人，都能承担责任。
You know, forgiveness is a choice you make.
你知道，宽恕是你自己的选择。
You can forgive...
你能宽恕...
or you can stay bitter.
或者,你可以继续痛苦。
And forgiving Terry Nichols was one of the best choices I ever made.
原谅特里·尼科尔斯，是我做过的最好的选择之一。
It changed my life.
它改变了我的生活。
Terry Nichols was remorseful,unlike McVeigh.
特里·尼科尔斯很懊悔，不像麦克维。
And he told me, "Whenever I'm not under the threat
of the death penalty anymore,I'm gonna tell you everything."
他告诉我，“只要我不再受到死刑的威胁，我就会告诉你一切。”
And he has tried.
他已经尝试过了。
I'd like to read you part of this letter
that Terry Nichols sent me.
我想给你读一段，特里·尼科尔斯寄给我的信。
"So to put everything in a nutshell, Kathy,
“所以简而言之，凯西，
Timothy McVeigh was the manipulated foot soldier,
蒂莫西·麦克维是被♥操♥纵的“马前小卒”，
Roger Moore the middleman who supplied Tim
with encouragement,instructions,and some explosives.
罗杰·摩尔这个中间人，给蒂姆提供了鼓励，指导和一些炸♥药♥。
And the top dog, the director who orchestrated it all,
而有个“头号♥人物”，他导演策划了这一切，
is a rogue FBI agent with the help of others
who I will not name at this time."
他是一个得到其他人帮助的FBI无赖特工，我现在还不会透露他的名字。”
[Sanders] I don't know if what he wrote was true or not,
[桑德斯]我不知道他写的是真是假，
but after that letter,he was notified by the warden
that I was to be taken off of his calling list.
但在那封信之后，典狱长通知他，已经把我从他的通讯联♥系♥录上“除名”了。
We've been stopped.
我们之间被阻断了。
2001年6月，印第安那州，泰瑞豪特
[reporter] Here's how it works.
[记者] 就是这样。
Timothy McVeigh lives in a special confinement unit.
蒂莫西·麦克维住在一个特殊的拘留所。
That is the building there with the green roof.
就是那座有绿色屋顶的建筑。
He will be transported by van to the execution house.
他将被押送到刑场。
[Herbeck] He told us that,
[赫贝克]他告诉我们，
"When the federal government puts me to death,
“当联邦政♥府♥判我死刑时，
I'm still gonna be the winner,
我仍然是赢家，
because it's 168 for Tim McVeigh and one for the government."
因为蒂姆·麦克维得了168分，政♥府♥得了1分。”
[Michel] You have these three tubes that are coming out of a wall
[米歇尔]你看见有三根管子从墙上伸出来，
with the three chemicals,poison, to kill him.
里面有三种化学物质，毒药，要杀死他。
The executioner was given the order,and all of a
sudden these tubes started swaying in, like, this ghostly way.
刽子手接到命令后，突然这些管子，开始像幽灵一样晃动。
And meanwhile, McVeigh is looking straight up at a camera
that is giving a live feed to an auditorium
与此同时，麦克维正直视着一个正在向礼堂直播的摄像机
where other victims,and family members,survivors are watching.
其他受害者及其家属，和幸存者们，正在观看行刑。
[Sanders] He glares this "go to hell" look at us.
[桑德斯 ]他用“去死吧”的眼神，瞪着我们。
They push the button...
他们按下按钮...
and he went... [gasps softly] He was gone.
然后他走了... [轻轻地喘着气] 他走了。
[Michel] He died with his eyes open.
[米歇尔] 他死的时候，眼睛是睁着的。
[Clinton] I wondered what would've happened if...
[克♥林♥顿♥] 我想知道，假如是这样...
I'd known Timothy McVeigh when he was a boy.
假设，当蒂莫西·麦克维还是个孩子时，我就认识他了。
I wonder if I would have gone out of my way to befriend him.
我想知道，我是否会特意去帮助他。
I wonder if--You know, you can--
我想知道，如果... 你懂的，你能...
I wonder about all that.
我想知道这一切。
McVeigh was a tragic example of a guy who thought
our differences were more important than what we have in common.
麦克维是一个悲剧性的例子，他认为我们之间的差异，比我们的共同点，更重要。
Were there objective reasons that he felt the way he did,
both personal and psychological?
是否有客观的原因，使他有这样的感觉，无论是个人的，还是心理的?
Absolutely.
绝对有的。
And political and economic? Yes.
是政♥治♥和经济方面的吗？ 是的。
But we can't blow the house up.
但我们不能把房♥子炸了。
It doesn't matter whether he was right about anything or not.
他对任何问题的看法，是对，还是错，这些都无关重要。
What matters is he decided
he should kill people he didn't know,including little kids.
重要的是，他决定要杀害他不认识的人，包括小孩子。
But the words he used,the arguments he made...
但他的用词，他的论点...
literally sound like the mainstream today.
听起来，就像今天的主流。
Like he won.
就像是，他赢了。
[bagpipes playing]
[风笛演奏]
第三波浪潮
2022年四月19日，俄克拉荷马市国家纪念馆
Tim McVeigh set out to destroy the government.
蒂姆·麦克维打算摧毁政♥府♥。
He destroyed my family.
他毁了我的家庭。
My brothers passed away in the Oklahoma City bombing,
and we go there to remember.
我的兄弟们在俄克拉荷马城爆♥炸♥案中丧生，我们去那里纪念。
[man] The risk of terrorism,
it's always kind of in the back of your head.
[男子] 恐♥怖♥主♥义♥的风险，总是萦绕在你的脑海里。
[Kimble] I think there will be civil war in our country.
[金贝尔] 我认为，我们的国家会发生内战。
It's frightening.
这是可怕的。
But there are lessons to be learned
from what happened here in Oklahoma City.
但我们也可以从俄克拉荷马城发生的事情中，吸取教训。
The reason we come back here every year
is that this wasn't a one-off thing.
我们每年都来这里的原因是，这不是“一次性”的事情。
It can really happen again.
这可能再次发生。
Where we're standing now was the Alfred P. Murrah Building.
我们现在站的地方是阿尔弗雷德·P·默拉大厦。
The empty chairs represent the 168 victims.
空椅子代表168名遇难者。
The gate behind me says "9:01,"
the moment of innocence before the bombing.
我身后的门上写着9:01 “爆♥炸♥前的纯真时刻”。
The gate over your shoulder says "9:03," the aftermath.
你肩上的门上写着9:03“爆♥炸♥的后果”。
Today.
今天。
This year we're living in is not much different from 1995.
我们生活的这一年，与1995年没有太大的不同。
People yelling at each other,
not making arguments based on fact, but emotion.
人们对彼此大喊大叫，不是基于事实，而是基于情感。
Many folks feel left behind.
许多人感到被遗忘了。
Like their American dream has been stolen.
就像他们的美国梦被偷走了。
[all chanting] No sale! No sale! No sale! No sale! No sale!
[全在喊] 卖♥♥不出！卖♥♥不出！卖♥♥不出！卖♥♥不出！卖♥♥不出！
No sale! No sale!
卖♥♥不出！卖♥♥不出！
[Boettcher] That rage doesn't disappear.
[博特切尔] 这种愤怒没有消失。
It can explode on the fringes,
as we've seen too many times since April 19th, 1995.
它可以在边缘爆发，正如我们自1995年4月19日以来，多次看到的那样。
[indistinct yelling]
[含混的喊叫声]
[Boettcher] The Oklahoma City bombing was a crossroads.
[博特切尔] 俄克拉荷马城爆♥炸♥案，是一个十字路口。
It was a huge signpost in history.
这是历史上一个巨大的路标。
"America, wake up."
“美国，醒醒吧。”
But I think that sign got blown down.
但我觉得，那个标志，被炸飞了。
[reporter 1]... a mass shooting.
[记者1]...大规模枪击。
[reporter 2] ...180-page manifesto.
[记者2]...180页的宣言。
[reporter 3] He didn't come to worship. He came to kill.
[记者3]他不是来做礼拜的。他是来杀人的。