恶（2013）

Vice S04E06

Part 4 May 7, 2021, 11:28 a.m.

比如公♥司♥业务对象规定
businesses targeted, saying,
你只能为虔诚的婚礼
you will provide goods and services to a marriage ceremony
提供物品和服务如果你违反规定
that you believe to be religious, and if you don't do it,
将会被取消业务
we're gonna take your
或者被开除
business from you or drive you from business.
最高法♥院♥使同性婚姻合法化
With the Supreme Court legalizing same-sex marriage,
你认为这会削弱宗教自♥由♥运♥动♥的力量吗
do you think that that weakened the religious freedom movement?
我觉得不会它反而使人们醒悟了
I don't actually think it did. It suddenly woke people up.
你可以看出法案颁布后
You saw the support for
对同性婚姻的支持率下降了
same-sex marriage decline after the decision.
而且对于基♥督♥教的商业保障加强了
You also saw Christian business protection go up.
所以你认为法案的颁布使宗教自♥由♥运♥动♥的底气更足了
So you think it actually, maybe, emboldened the movement?
我认为它确实使这些运动变得更加大胆了
I think it probably did embolden the movement.
那个运动的领袖？
And the leaders of that movement?
无数企业老板仍然坚持他们的立场
Countless business owners who continue to stand their ground
拒绝为同性夫妇提供服务
in refusing to serve same-sex couples.
我不能帮他做花因为这么做是对耶稣的侮辱
I couldn't do his flowers because it would dishonor Christ.
为他们的婚礼提供服务有悖于我们的信仰
It's against our belief to cater to their wedding.
我们这么做就表示我们容忍♥这种行为
We're condoning that if we do that,
这违背了我们的宗教信仰
and that is against our religion.
在科罗拉多大♥师♥级蛋糕店的老板杰克菲利普斯
In Colorado, Masterpiece Cakeshop owner Jack Phillips
拒绝为两个男同性恋制♥作♥结婚蛋糕
refused to bake a wedding cake for two gay men.
州政♥府♥判定他违反了一项反歧视法律条款
The state ruled that he had violated an anti-discrimination law.
他现在正准备向科罗拉多最高法♥院♥提出上诉
He's now looking to take his case to the Colorado Supreme Court.
宗教自♥由♥主义者们对你的案子持什么态度
How has the community reacted to your case?
他们对案子的态度非常积极
The community reacted really well.
他们一直都很支持我们
They've been very supportive of us.
现在我的电♥话♥变成了热♥线♥
I started getting phone calls pretty much nonstop all day.
我刚挂掉一个电♥话♥ 铃♥声♥马上又响了起来
I would answer the call, hang up, and it would ring,
挂电♥话♥ 来电♥话♥ 一刻不停
and hang up, and it would ring, nonstop.
抛开宗教信仰你能否理解
Even with your religious beliefs, can you understand
一对同性恋夫妇在这里受到歧视待遇的感受
how a gay couple coming in here would feel discriminated against?
我认为如果我在这儿没有受到
I would think that if I came in expecting
和预想一样的待遇
to be treated one way and was treated another,
那我就会去别处
that I would go somewhere else.
美国人有按照自己的信仰
Americans have the right
生活和工作的权利
to live and work according to their faith.
科罗拉多州对于性取向
There's an anti-discrimination
有反歧视条文规定
law for sexual orientation in the state of Colorado.
你认为这种规定合理吗
Do you think that should exist?
呃法♥院♥应该仔细审查反歧视条文
Um, the courts need to look at that anti-discrimination law,
将它和美国宪法相比较
compare it to the US Constitution,
看看哪一个更有价值
and see which one's more valuable.
我会站在宪法这边
I'm gonna go with the Constitution.
但不仅仅是婚庆公♥司♥
But it isn't just wedding vendors
拒绝为同性恋客户提供服务
who are refusing to serve gay clients.
同性恋群体在就业住房♥ 甚至医疗上
LGBT people are reporting discrimination
都会受到不同程度的歧视
in employment, housing, and even medical care.
达纳奈索尔对于这类案件具有丰富的经验
A veteran of those battles is Dana Nessel,
她是一名杰出的民权律师
a prominent civil rights lawyer
她曾在最高法♥院♥进行辩护
who has taken cases as far as the Supreme Court.
宗教右♥派♥势力找到了
The Religious Right have found an angle
一种利用宗教信仰反守为攻的方式
to use religion as a sword instead of a shield.
当那些商店老板说
And what about the business owners who say,
同性恋夫妻又不是只有我这一家店可去
"I'm one shop of ten other shops
的时候该怎么办
that a couple could go to"?
如果一个人对同性夫妇的歧视
Once you say it's okay for one person to discriminate
被认可
against a same-sex couple,
那就意味着为同性恋歧视行为
you're really leaving the door open
敞开了一扇大门
for all businesses to have that same opportunity.
那些反对同性婚姻的人认为
People who oppose same-sex marriage seem to believe
其他所有的人
that their sense of morality
都应该和他们保持相同的道德观
should be imposed on the rest of the population.
戴娜的两个于2012年合法结婚的客户
Two of Dana's clients, Krista and Jami Contreras,
克丽丝塔和杰米孔特雷拉斯
who were legally married in 2012,
不止一次的经历了那样的遭遇
have experienced that reality time and time again.
当贝刚出生六天的时候我们带她去看了
When Bay was six days old, we took her to the doctor
已经提前预约的那个医生
who we had met with previously,
我们一到那
liked her, and then when we showed up,
另一个医生接待了我们
another doctor greeted us in the room
并告诉我们她将做我们的主治医师
and told us that she would be our doctor,
我们两个当时这样哇奥为什么
and we were both like, "Whoa, whoa. Why?
完全不懂为什么
"Like, what's going on?
难道之预约的那个医生出事了
What happened to the doctor that we met with?"
她解释说原来的医生已经祈祷过了
And she said, "Well, she prayed on it,
她还是无法把贝当做一个病人来对待
"And she decided she can't take Bay on as a patient."
我们本想一走了之但我们不能
We wanted to run out, but we couldn't
因为我们还有个六天大的婴儿
because we already had a
并且我们很需要这次预约
six-day-old and we needed this appointment.
她基本上就写了封信来为自己辩解
She wrote this letter basically trying to justify her actions.
大约是我不能
It was like, "I couldn't
把你们像我的普通病人那样对待
treat you like I treat my normal patients."
小孩子是无辜的
She's the one thing that should be the most sacred,
我们甚至不能在医疗健康方面来保护她
and we couldn't even protect our daughter at a doctor's office.
她又不是同性恋我们才是
And she's not gay. You know? We are!
这不是个案
This isn't a one-off.
在美国半数以上的州
Doctors can legally refuse
医生拒绝为同性恋病人和他们的孩子
to care for LGBT patients and their children
看病是合法的
in more than half the states in the country.
但是即使他们不抵♥制♥
But even when they don't,
这些家庭也可能面临
these families can face a
一个剥夺他们基本家长权利的组织
system that erodes a parent's most basic rights.
我在得克萨斯州的奥古斯丁拜访了
I'm in Austin, Texas, to meet up with a lesbian couple
一对刚生了一个男婴的女同性恋
who just gave birth to a baby boy.
其中的一位母亲罗宾也就是生育小孩的那位
One of the mothers, Robin, is the one who gave birth
实际上用的是她妻子莉的卵子
and she actually used her wife, Leigh's, embryo.
她们现在面临的问题是无法合法地
The issue they're having now is legally
将婴儿的真正生母莉
they can't get Leigh, the
把莉的名字写到出生证上
biological mother's name on the birth certificate.
他一来到这个世上就让我们欣喜若狂
As soon as he came, it was just overwhelming happiness.
他立马哭了
He cried right away.
就像是医生费劲让他出来之前
It seemed like he cried
他就在已经在哭
before they had even gotten him all the way out.
他他就是我人间的四月天
He's... I'm speechless over him, literally.
在出生证明申请这件事上
The birth certificate application,
提供的所有解决方案里面
all the options that it gives you,
没有一个适用于同性婚姻中
there's no option for being married to someone of the same sex.
我们填的是她和孩子的另一位母亲结婚了
We filled in that she was married to the child's other mother,
我划掉了父亲俩字写了个母亲
and I struck through father and wrote mother.
然后提交了表格
We submitted that form and the person who's in charge
医院里负责出生证明的工作人员来找我们
of the birth certificates here at the hospital came in.
核实出生情况证明信息
They brought in a Verification of Birth Facts,
但是并没有把我放到需要核实的信息之中
but it didn't have me listed on that verification.
德克萨斯州这一做法与法律相抵触
The way the state of Texas is interpreting the law,
尽管你是威廉姆的血缘母亲
even though you're the biological mother of William,
但是仍然不会是他的合法母亲
you're still not his legal mother?
威廉姆可以受益于你的医疗保险吗不
Could William be on your health-care plan? No.
你可以要求看他的医疗记录吗
Could you request medical records?
我认为在这一点上出于对HIPAA（医疗电子信息交换法案）法案条例的顾忌
I don't think that a doctor would necessarily release
任何一个医生都不会
any of his records to me
将他的医疗记录给我
at this point because of HIPAA regulations.
如果罗宾出事了
If something were to happen to Robin,
你能继承罗宾的监护权吗
would you gain custody of William?
我希望州政♥府♥允许他留在我身边
I would hope that the state would allow him to stay with me,
但我不知道他们会不会这样做
but I don't know that they would.
很明显这很可怕
Well, it's terrifying, obviously.
我的意思是我们我们组建了这个家庭却还要时时刻刻担心
I mean, we... We've built this family and to think that...
万一我在回家的路上遭遇不测
that if something were to happen to me on the way home,
你说他该怎么办
you know, where would he go?
罗宾和莉加入了支持
Robin and Leigh joined in support