漫威616（2020）

Marvel's 616 S01E02

Part 6 July 14, 2021, 5:30 p.m.

这和我在七十年代听到的论调
It was really the opposite from
真的完全相反
what I hear people talking about in the '70s.
在二十世纪八十年代
At that time, in the 1980s,
漫画依旧是个被男性统治的领域
comic books were still a very male-dominated space.
然后这个领域忽然又重新变得开放了起来
But then it started to open up again.
在二十世纪八十年代初期
In the early 1980s,
DC和漫威都从经销商转化成了专卖♥♥店
both DC and Marvel shifted from bigger distributors to specialty shops,
漫画展示
就是通过这些专卖♥♥店
and it was through those specialty shops
《超胆侠》《艾丽卡传奇》
两家公♥司♥成功培养了一批忠实粉丝
that they were able to cultivate a loyal audience of fans
并在二十世纪八十年代晚期蓬勃发展
and actually flourish in the late 1980s.
-你读了《漫威时代》吗 -肯定读了啊
- You read the Marvel Age? - Yeah, totally.
就是有三个角色死亡的那本 210期...
Where, like, three people die? Well, issue #210...
漫威更加的...现实
Marvel is more, like, realistic.
我第一次走进漫威漫画的办公室时
The first time I walked into the Marvel Comics office,
我还不那么清楚什么叫超级英雄
I wasn't that aware of what a superhero was,
但是漫威漫画的目标它的魔力
and the magic of what Marvel Comics was up to
很快就显现出来了
became apparent really quickly.
漫威办公室示意图
你走进漫威办公室就能看到玛丽·塞维林
I mean, you walk into the Marvel Bullpen and there's Marie Severin,
她会给你讲故事画画
and she's telling you stories and drawing,
还会把她的枪拿出来作参考
and she's pulling out her guns for reference.
有阿奇·古德温
You had Archie Goodwin,
公认的情节设计大♥师♥
who was considered the master of plot mechanics.
丹尼·奥尼尔曾经是一名记者
Denny O'Neil, who was a journalist.
如果你在情节设计方面遇到难处
If you were having trouble with a plot,
尽管去找他丹尼会帮忙
you'd go in and there would be Denny.
那里充满嬉闹而有趣的氛围
The spirit of the place was so playful and so much fun,
你会一直觉得受到指导
and you had a constant sense of being mentored.
编辑这方面的知识都是露易丝·西蒙森教我的
Louise Simonson taught me everything that I know about editing.
那时已为人母的编辑就我一个
I think I was the only editor who was a mother then.
我得送女儿上学
I had a daughter that I had to drop off at school.
管理层对我平日上下班作息必然不会满意
So my daily routine was not what the suits would have liked.
我记得有次跟审计官同坐一趟上行电梯
And I was told by, I think it was the comptroller
他当时这么跟我说 "你知不知道"
just riding up in the elevator, he said, "You know what?"
他说 "你的迟到记录真夸张"
He said, "You have this terrible record for coming in on time."
接着他又说 "但你比其他人画得多
But he said, "You do more pages than anybody else,
你画的东西赚的钱也比别人多
and they're making more money than everybody else is.
所以继续保持就好"
So, just keep doing what you're doing."
我当时心想他这么说挺酷的
I mean, I thought it was actually kind of cool.
说实话谈到漫画
Now, honestly, as far as the
谈到我制♥作♥的大卖♥♥漫画
amount of money the books I was making went,
我确实制♥作♥了《X战警》所以理所当然
I did have the X-Men. So, duh.
是的我只是走运罢了
I mean, yeah, I was just lucky.
漫威漫画公♥司♥ 《神奇X战警》
我那时是露易丝·西蒙森的助理
I was Louise Simonson's assistant,
当她决定离开时
and when she decided to leave,
X战警我觉得是当时最畅销的漫画
the X-Men were actually, I think, the best-selling books.
维兹到处问
And Weezie asked everybody, you know,
"你要接手《X战警》吗你要吗"
"Do you want the X-Men? Do you want the X-Men?"
大家都说 "不不要《X战警》"
Everyone said, "No, we don't want the X-Men"
因为大家都喜欢自己手头的活
because people tended to love what they were doing.
你要么是《复仇者联盟》的编辑
You know, you're the Avengers editor
要么是《蜘蛛侠》编辑
or you're the Spider-Man editor.
没人想要《X战警》
So nobody wanted the X-Men,
我当时已经非常了解克里斯了
and I had already gotten to know Chris really well
所有的情节会议我都旁听过
and sat in on all their story meetings,
因此算得上是无缝衔接
so it was a really seamless transition.
我开始拿到一些短小故事情节
I started getting little short stories,
然后我收到任务杀死《女蜘蛛侠》
and then I got the assignment to kill Spider-Woman.
《女蜘蛛侠》
那就是我第一个重要任务
That was my first big assignment.
想到要杀死《女蜘蛛侠》我很激动
I was excited at the idea of killing Spider-Woman.
或许我天真犯傻没意识到
Maybe I was too naive and stupid to realize
扼杀角色可不是什么好事
that killing a character is not something you want to do,
马克很可能问过所有其他编剧
and that Mark had probably asked every other writer
愿不愿意杀死《女蜘蛛侠》他们都不愿意
if they would kill Spider-Woman, and they all went, "No."
看这是《远射》的首稿
Look at this. This is the first drawing of Longshot.
就好像他在描述
This was like him saying what
他想要《远射》里有怎样的情节
kind of stuff he would like to have in Longshot,
-主题应该是什么 -好极了
- what the theme should be. - That's great.
-多贴心 -是啊
- Isn't it sweet? - I know.
"给露易丝和安妮"
Look, "To Louise and Anne."
真喜欢亚瑟这个我完全不记得了
I love Arthur. I had totally forgotten about this.
安妮开始创作《远射》时
When Annie started writing Longshot,
我发现她非常有想法
and I saw what a strong point of view she had,
而且表达流畅
and how well she expressed it,
我想 "她确实很有想法"
I thought, "Wow. She's really something."
她的思考方式很独特
She had a real distinct way of thinking about things,
我觉得这是她的巨大优势
and I think that that's... that was such an advantage for her.
《远射》
看看有想法的人的作品
It's really important to
这个真的非常重要
read works by people who have points of view
《巨蛇盘踞》
因为看看不同见解者的观点
because it expands my own point
能够拓展自己的视野
of view of somebody who sees things differently,
安妮独树一帜
and Annie saw everything differently.
她的作品才华满满
Her stuff was just brilliant.
我记得每天上班坐在地铁上
I remember just sitting on the subway every day going to work
超胆侠无畏勇者
浮想联翩
and wondering what everyone
思考别人都在想什么想着想着就发展到
was thinking and taking that to the next step of,
向下驶入欢迎光顾本趟列车下一站地狱
"让列车驶入地狱怎么样
"What if the train went to hell,
然后超胆侠可以在地狱遇见靡菲斯特"
and then Daredevil gets to go to hell and meet Mephisto?"
好像挺好玩像一出歌♥剧
That's like fun. That's like an opera.
设计打斗动作非常有趣
There's a lot of fun to choreographing a fight.
编写《超胆侠》的时候
I mean, when I was writing Daredevil,
我开始学空手道
I started taking karate classes.
我想学习打斗
It was like I wanted to learn how to fight.
开始练拳击
I started boxing.
赛场这边是超胆侠
我沉迷于此并享受设计打斗动作
So, I got into it, and I enjoyed the choreography of a fight,
直到某个时刻你就会想
but at some point you have to say,
"为什么一切最终都升级为武力
"What am I saying about the world
我想要传递什么信息"
that everything has to escalate into a fight?"
人们开始讨论为什么漫画里不多点女性角色
People talk about why there aren't more women in comics.
我一直认为这跟人物描述本身有关
I've always thought it had to do with that narrative itself.
能让女性共鸣的是内心强大
Women relate to feeling powerful,
不受束缚传递力量
feeling emancipated, having agency,
但她们能接受打打杀杀吗
but do they relate to people smashing each other?
我不觉得
I don't think so.
那时我没有多想
Back then I wasn't thinking,
"怎么才能让女性对这些故事有兴趣"
"How do I draw females into being interested in these stories?"
-见到你真的太好了 -我也是
- It's so good seeing you. - Oh, I know.
很多年来我对女性角色唯恐避之不及
I avoided female characters like the plague for years.
琼·布里格曼
为什么
Why?
因为我不想被设定为
Because I didn't want to get
只编写女性角色的女人
typecast as a woman who writes female characters,
-因为那些角色向来活不长 -是的
- 'cause those characters never lasted. - Yeah.
角色没了就相当于失业了
And no -- And then you were out of a job.
那时我只站在男性角度写故事
I think I was just trying to write like a man back then.
-是的 -我只想着
- Yeah. - I was just like,
"让我变成男人吧
"Oh, let me be one of the boys.
我来写《惩罚者》《金刚狼》《超胆侠》
I'll write Punisher, Wolverine, Daredevil."
然后我记得是你
And then I thought that you -
和特瑞纳·罗宾斯首先想到
and Trina Robbins were the first people that were kinda like,
"等等我们来尝试非男性群体漫画吧"
"Wait a minute. Let's try a comic that isn't for men."
我想或许我可以写点东西
I thought, maybe, I wanted to write something,
我有一个四个小孩成为超级英雄的构思
and I had this idea of four little kids who are superheroes.
《动力小队》
维兹说我想做一本名为《动力小队》的漫画
Weezie said, "I have an idea for this comic book called Power Pack."
她写的故事
The stories she wrote were
《动力小队》
其实更像经典的青少年的故事