丹斯（2020）

So then I rang his solicitor,
他们说等一阵子 他就会现身了
and they told me to wait a while and that he'd show up.
但我知道有事
But I knew.
然后我在新闻上看到了你
And then I saw you on the news,
虽然我知道格雷厄姆不是弯的
and even though I know Graham wasn't bent,
但我就是感觉不对劲
just something kept turning in my gut.
不是所有的受害者都是同性恋
Not all of his victims were gay.
有的只是想借宿或者饱肚
Some just needed a bed or some food.
-你有他的照片吗 -有的
- Do you have a photo? - Yeah.
这张
This.
所以他有前科
So, he had a criminal record?
当然 他就差把案底当荣誉勋章了
Of course. He almost wore it as a badge of honour,
觉得是他一人对抗整个体制
you know, him against the system.
我就是想知道发生了什么
I just need to know what happened.
我知道他是个混♥蛋♥ 但...
I know he's been a bit of a shit, but...
他是沙恩的爸爸
he's Shane's dad.
总督察彼得·杰来见丹尼斯·尼尔森
DCI Peter Jay to see Dennis Nilsen.
-你来帮我认几张照片 -卜丽普怎么样了
- I need you to identify some photos. - How's Bleep?
我上次来这里的时候
Well, you made it pretty busy for me
你可没让我好过 丹斯
the last time I was here, Des.
我没时间去关心你的狗
Haven't had a chance to find out about your dog.
格雷厄姆·埃伦和约翰·霍莱特 也叫近卫团兵约翰
Graham Allen and John Howlett, AKA John the Guardsman.
但他并不是什么近卫团兵 是吗
Although he wasn't a guardsman, was he?
他也只是个在苏豪区的街道上
He was just another young man,
挣扎求生的年轻小伙子
finding his way on the streets of Soho.
我受够帮助那些
I am sick of helping people
利用我善心的人了
who take advantage of my good nature.
我应该得到更多平等重视
I am deserving of some more balance.
你是说帮你写传记的作家吗
What, like with your biographer?
你有没有杀害这些人
Did you kill these men?
你在梅尔罗斯大道一共杀了多少人
How many people did you kill in Melrose Avenue?
你是不是杀了肯尼斯·奥肯顿
Did you kill Kenneth Ockenden?
我要是不想的话 你根本就抓不到我
If I hadn't wanted you to, you wouldn't have found me.
-我有什么好骗你的 -看这几张照片
- So why would I lie to you now? - Look at the photos.
我目前都没有定罪
I've been convicted of no crimes as of yet,
所以在我被判有罪之前我都是无辜的
therefore I am innocent until proven guilty.
你从哪学的
Where is this coming from?
我被当做什么危险犯人关在A类...
In Category A, like some kind of dangerous criminal...
看着这些照片 告诉我你有没有杀他们
Look at the photos and tell me if you killed these men...
你要我怎么办 逃跑 恐吓目击者吗
What am I gonna do? Escape? Intimidate a witness?
-丹斯 -你只有我这一个目击者
- Des! - I'm your only witness!
这位男性有个七岁的孩子
This man has a seven-year-old son.
明智点 睁大眼睛看看这些照片
Do the right thing, and look at the fucking photos.
你有没有杀他
Did you kill this man?
无可奉告
No comment.
-总督察彼得·杰 -布莱恩·马斯特斯
- Detective Chief Inspector Peter Jay. - Brian Masters.
-喝一杯吗 -不用了 谢谢
- Drink? - No, thank you.
来的路还好找吧
You found it all right, then?
-是的 一下就找到了 -那就好
- Oh, yes, no trouble at all. - Good.
你写作多久了
So, how long have you been writing?
大概十五年 你呢
About 15 years. You?
我是说你当警♥察♥多久了
I mean, how long have you been a policeman?
快23年了
Nearly 23 years.
你写了多少本关于尼尔森这类人的书
How many books have you written about people like Nilsen?
这是我第一本
Well, this is my first.
那我给你条忠告
Then let me give you some advice.
放弃吧
Walk away.
请恕我直言
Well, with all due respect,
杰先生 我并不是轻率地掺和进来的
Mr Jay, I didn't approach this naively.
那你为什么要掺和
Well, why approach it at all?
你觉得你能理解他的所作所为吗
I mean, you think you can understand these things he did?
我不确定说"理解"是否恰当
I'm not sure that understanding is useful here.
这个词带有感情偏向 而且往往
The term is emotional and more often than not,
通过理解得到的答案
it leads us to answers
会展现出我们自身的偏见
that are indicative of our own prejudices.
这跟理解无关 应该说是了解
It's not about understanding, it's about comprehending.
这不是一♥码♥事吗
Isn't that the same thing?
人有杀戮之心 这是在我们骨子里的
Humans kill. It's in our nature.
出于暴怒 嫉妒或是自卫
Out of fits of rage or jealousy, or self-defence.
但要无缘无故地杀害这么多人...
But to kill so many men without any real reason...
我觉得我们应该
I think it's important
我们尽量去了解事情发生的原因
that we try to comprehend why this happened,
以及他是怎样变成现在这样的
and how this person came to pass.
我想让你告诉我们
I need you to tell us
尼尔森告诉你的一切
everything that Nilsen's told you
与受害者身份有关的事
about the identities of his victims.
我了解到的信息
Well, I don't have any more information
并不比你们多
than you already have.
你们已经聊了几个月了
Well, you've been talking for months.
我们都聊别的
We talk about other things.
-比如呢 -他的童年 他的部队生涯
- Such as? - His childhood. His time in the army.
-他在部队里杀过人吗 -没有
- Was he killing in the army? - No.
你多久去看他一次
How often have you been visiting him?
每周一到两次
Once or twice a week.
-你上次见到他是什么时候 -四天前
- When's the last time you saw him? - Four days ago.
-是他给你写信吗 -不 我写给他
- And, he wrote to you? - No, I wrote to him.
我不太确定我们为什么来这里
I'm not really sure why we're here.
尼尔森不再协助我们调查了
Nilsen is no longer helping us with our investigation.
-从什么时候开始的 -什么 他没告诉你
- Since when? - What, he didn't tell you?
他提过肯尼斯·奥肯顿吗
Has he even mentioned Kenneth Ockenden?
-他杀了肯尼斯·奥肯顿吗 -我没这么说
- Did he kill Kenneth Ockenden? - I didn't say that.
只要他提到任何人名
If he mentions any names,
你都有责任向我们报告
you have a duty to report them to us.
没那么简单
Oh, it's not as simple as that.
妨碍司法公正就很简单
Perverting the course of justice is very simple.
如果你是说我跟他不再协助调查的事
If you are suggesting that I had anything to do
有任何关系
with his retracting his cooperation,
那你就大错特错了 杰先生
then you are gravely mistaken, Mr Jay.
而且如果你希望跟我继续谈下去
And if you wish to take this conversation any further,
也许我应该致电我的律师
then maybe I should telephone my solicitor.
如果你想写关于尼尔森的书
If you wanted to write a book about Nilsen,
你应该先来找我们
you should have come to us first.
我们会告诉你真♥相♥的
We'd have given you the real story.
但你已经彻底被他迷住了 对吗
But you're all so fucking fascinated by him, aren't you?
-下午愉快 -下午愉快
- Afternoon. - Good afternoon.
我自从来到这个人间炼狱
Ever since I've come to this hell on earth,
就一直被歧视 虐待 羞辱
I have been disrespected, abused, humiliated.
我一直都在协助调查
I have done nothing but help an investigation,
我这些尚未定罪的罪行
for which I have not yet been convicted.
没人在乎我这么多年来做出的贡献
Nobody cares about my years of public service,
也没人留意我在军队中的付出
my work with the unions, that goes unnoticed.
你为什么不提肯尼斯·奥肯顿
Why didn't you mention Kenneth Ockenden?
-我明白了 你跟杰先生聊过 -对 他找过我
- You've spoken to Mr Jay, I see. - Yes. He contacted me.
对
Yeah.
我不提肯是因为他让我后悔
I didn't mention Ken cos he's the one I regret.
我们共度的那天如此快乐
The day we spent together was so happy.
是我一整年里最快乐的一天
The happiest I'd been all year.
跟其他人不一样 他的死很残忍♥
Unlike the others, his death was a kind of cruel
相较于我的本意 几乎可以称是悲惨的恶作剧
and horrid parody of what could've been.
你不觉得内疚或自责吗
Well, do you not feel any guilt or remorse?
为什么
Why?
他们也在牢房♥里陪着我 布莱恩
They live with me in my cell, Brian.
他们所有人
All of them.
我自己承受了
How can I feel remorse
这些痛苦 那还怎么会内疚呢
when I have taken those pains into myself?
真恶心
That's obscene.
听着 要是他们中有人现在走进来
Look, I'd give anything for any one of them
一枪把我打死 我愿意付出任何代价
to walk in here right now and shoot me dead.
但残酷的事实是他们只有死了
But the sad fact is they had to die
才会有人关注他们的困境
to get attention for their plights.
因为那些可望而不可及的公共安置来得太迟