联邦实案（2023）

-谈判代表还在向大卫派伸出手来，说，“请出来吧”…
大卫，不要对你的信众这样做。
- Thinking that maybe they'll start to file out through the doors and some of the openings made by the tanks.
- 我想，也许他们会从那些履带式步兵战车撞开的门，和一些洞口，鱼贯而出。
But there's nothing,no response.
但是，什么也没有，毫无反应。
Nobody's coming out. Nothing.
没人出来。什么都没有。
这不是了结此事的方法。
带你的人出来，大卫。
否则，你就是毁灭一切的“救世主”。
- Charlie,what's happening at this point?
-查理，这是怎么回事?
We've moved the Bradleys forward.
我们出动了布莱德利步兵战车。
We're pumping gas in.
我们还放了催泪瓦斯。
- The gas is ineffective.
-催泪瓦斯是无效的。
Windy day. Place was a barn.
那天有风。建筑很空荡。
Windows open. Gas was just blowing.
窗户开着，瓦斯被吹跑了。
The wind was blowing it right out the windows.
过堂风把瓦斯吹出了窗外。
They had masks. I don't even know if they needed them,to be honest with you.
他们戴着面具。说实话，我甚至不认为，他们需要戴着它。
It wasn't affecting them.They were still shooting at us.
这并没有影响到他们。他们还在向我们开枪。
They were not responding the way we had hoped
他们并没有，像我们希望的那样，
they would respond by letting the kids out.
对让孩子们先出去，做出回应。
- Then I see on the red and white corner, a wisp of smoke.
- 然后，我看到在红白相间的角落里，有一缕烟。
Another operator calls out that he sees a wisp of smoke.
另一名行动队员喊道，他看到一缕烟雾。
I can't see that corner. - Yeah.
我看不见那个角落。 - 是的。
- He can't see mine. The compound is too big.
-他看不见我的视野。 院子太大了。
So therefore, I know,OK, there's got to be
因此，我知道，肯定有
two "wisps of smoke." - Yeah.
两缕“烟”。 - 是的。
- That means two fires have been set.
- 这意味着，已经放了两堆火。
And I'm like, they're starting fires in there.
我就想，他们在里面放火。
- I had a pretty unique perspective because I was in an angle
- 我有一个非常独特的视角，因为我在一个
where I could see most of the structure.
可以看到大部分结构的视角。
And I start seeing puffs of smoke, puffs of smoke,
然后我开始看到一股烟雾，又一股烟雾，
puffs of smoke in three different places
接着又一股烟雾，同时出现在
simultaneously along the building.
大楼的三个不同的地方。
And the next thing you know,with that wind...
接下来情景，你是知道的，随着这股风…
- We can see flames from two miles away.
- 我们可以看到，两英里外的火焰。
Now the flames-- oh, my goodness.
-现在，这火焰...哦，我的天呐。
- And we wanted to get out.
-我们想冲出观察点。
We said, "We've got to go get those kids."
我们说，“我们必须去救那些孩子。”
And we started to,but we could feel the rounds
我们开始射击，但我们能感觉到子弹
impacting the sandbags and hear them going off.
撞击沙袋的声音，及他们的惨叫声。
We knew it was a death sentence to do that.
我们知道，那是在执行死刑啊。
- And the fire has started to consume the building,
- 大火已经开始吞噬大屋了，
and I see a woman standing on the second floor.
我看到一个女人站在二楼上。
And then she jumps.
然后她跳了下来。
And then she turns around and walks back in
然后她巡视了一圈，又走回了
to the first floor of the compound, back into the flames.
大屋的一楼，投身进入火焰中。
I climb back into the back of the Bradley.
我爬上了布拉德利步兵战车的后座。
I tell the guy who's driving,I said, "Let's go over there.
我对开车的人说:“我们去那边查看一下吧。
"I'm gonna see if I can get in there and get her.
“我去看看，能不能冲进去，把她救出来。
And maybe she's with the children."
“也许她和孩子们在一起。”
And I find her laying on the concrete floor facedown.
我发现，她脸朝下，趴在水泥地上。
And I shake her and identify myself.
我摇了摇她，表明了我的身份。
And I said, "Listen,where are the children?"
我说:“听着，孩子们在哪里?”
And she just was nonresponsive.
她没有反应。
And I grab her, and I say,
我抓住她，说，
"Look, if we don't get out of here, we're gonna die as well."
“听着，如果我们不离开这里，我们也会死的。”
I'm having to drag her over the burning debris,
我把她拖过燃烧的废墟，
back out to the back of the Bradley,
回到布拉德利战车的后座，
and lay her on the back.
让她躺下。
I'm still asking her, "Where are the children?"
我还在问她:“孩子们在哪里?”
She never does respond.
她再也没有回应。
- I was pissed 'cause I'm like,well, those kids aren't out.
-我很生气，因为我想，好吧，那些孩子还没出来。
I'm praying now that there's a bunker or a tunnel or someplace safe.
我现在祈祷，有个地堡，或者隧♥道♥，或者安全的地方。
- As many as 86 people,including 17 children,
- 昨天韦科郊外的大火
are thought to have died in yesterday's inferno outside Waco.
造成86人死亡，其中包括17名儿童。
Today, investigators will search the ruins
今天，调查人员将在邪教组织
of the cult compound for remains of the victims.
的废墟中,寻找遇难者的遗体。
- And after the fires had kind of turned
-当大火烧成了，你知道的，
to just, you know,smoldering embers,
闷烧的余烬后，
I got tasked with being the first
我被指派成为第一个
to go into that first-level concrete bunker.
进入一楼混凝土掩体的人。
That was hell on Earth,a hell created by David Koresh.
那是人间地狱，大卫·考雷什创造的地狱。
And then, in a pile, you see a--
然后，在一堆灰烬中，你看到一个...
you know,sort of bone fragment or skull.
你知道，有点像骨头碎片或头骨。
It was like 40 children and, you know, their mothers.
大概有40个孩子，还有他们的妈妈。
- It looked like a lot of the children had died in their mother's arms.
- 看起来很多孩子，都死在了母亲的怀里。
The forensics afterwards,we were told that some of the children had been killed by their mothers
后来的法医告诉我们，有些孩子是被他们的母亲杀死的，
to escape the hell of dying in a fire like that.
以逃避在那样的火灾中死去的炼狱。
All we cared about were those kids.
我们只关心那些孩子。
Once we knew they weren't coming out and they were dead,we were crushed.
一旦，我们知道他们出不来了，他们已经死了，我们就崩溃了。
- This tragedy that's beyond even articulation
- 这场无法形容的悲剧，
is solely because of David Koresh.
完全是因为大卫·考雷什。
That's it.
就是的。
- The guy didn't want to come out because he was a pedophile.
-那家伙不想出来投降，因为他有恋童癖。
He had sexually assaulted underage girls--
他性侵过未成年女孩...
14, 13-- had children with them.
才14，13岁...她们还有孩子。
And every child of his was a living, breathing,
他的每一个孩子，都是法庭上
walking piece of evidence against him in court.
对他不利的活生生的证据。
And he would have gone to jail for a very long time for child molestation,and he knew that.
他会因为猥亵儿童，而在监狱里呆很长时间，他知道这一点。
国会和司法部对韦科对峙事件的多次调查确定，
联邦调查局的行为是合法的，
没有引起或促成火灾。
调查还得出结论，联邦调查局低估了大卫教派信徒
对他们认为是弥赛亚的大卫·考雷什的忠诚。
- The record of the Waco incident documents mistakes.
-韦科事件的执法录像记录了误解。
What the record from Waco does not evidence, however,
韦科惨案的执法录像并不能证明，
is any improper motive or intent on the part of law enforcement.
执法部门有任何不正当的动机或意图。
David Koresh and the Davidians set fire to themselves and committed suicide.
大卫·考雷什和大卫教的信徒们，是自焚自杀的。
（特拉华州民♥主♥党参议员，约瑟夫.R.拜登）
The government did not do that.
政♥府♥没有这么做。
“韦科的大卫教派对峙事件”仍然是美国历史上，最致命的执法事件。
- How does this case rank in your career,and what are some of the thoughts you have?
- 这个案子，在你的职业生涯中，排名如何，你有什么想法?
- I had a long career,31 years.
-我的职业生涯很长，31年了。
I enjoyed pretty much every minute of it.
我对它其余的每一分钟，都很享受。
This was one of the most distasteful aspects, of course.
当然，这案子是最令人不堪回首的场景之一。
And the reason it still sticks in my throat
这件事，至今仍让我，如鲠在喉的原因，
is the kids who had no choice in the matter
是孩子们，在这件事上的别无选择，
and were essentially murdered by their biological father.
实际上，是被他们的生父谋杀的。
And the four ATF agents...
还有那四名烟酒军♥火♥局的战友...
Nobody was really held accountable for their deaths,their murders.
没有人，为他们的死亡和谋杀负责。
I've not spoken about this in over 30 years almost.
我已经有30多年，没讲述过这件事情了。
It just breaks my heart,you know?
这让我心碎，你理解吗？
- Yeah, I agree. - Anyway...
- 是的，我同意。 - 不管怎样...
- I think there were definitely some lessons learned by the FBI.
- 我认为联邦调查局，肯定吸取了一些教训。
And one of the big ones was to have a better relationship
其中最重要的一点，就是在白宫的战术一方
between the tactical side of the house and the negotiators.
和谈判者之间，应建立更好的关系。
And I do think that was accomplished.
我认为，这任务已经完成了。
Something that I think was not accomplished
我认为，还没有完成的事情
was how to deal with a cult.
是如何对付邪教。
- "Thou shall break them with a rod of iron. Thou shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
- “你必用铁杖打破他们。你必将他们如同窑匠的瓦器摔碎。”
The guy is tough.
这家伙很厉害。
He's got more than guns.He's got God.
他有的不止是枪。他还有上帝。
- The bottom line is,there was one person
- 最重要的是，有一个人
that could have changed the outcome of it
本可以改变结果，
but chose not to do so,and that was David Koresh.
但他没有这样做，那人就是大卫·考雷什。
And until people stop following false prophets,this will happen again.
除非人们不再追随假先知，否则这种事，还会发生。