捷克伙伴：寻找伊日·门泽尔（2018）

最终会受到苏联的影响。
would eventually come under the Soviet influence.
所以在20世纪50年代这里就存在着警♥察♥恐怖。
So police terror existed here in the 1950s.
我是说。。。
I mean...
社会氛围不好。
the atmosphere in the society was not good.
有侵犯人♥权♥的行为，等等。
There were human rights violations, and so on.
因此
As a consequence of that
60年代的情况有所缓解
the '60s saw a bit of a mitigation
一种自♥由♥化
a kind of a liberalisation
这使得。。。
which made it possible for...
为了。。。
for...
捷克和斯洛伐克的新浪潮即将出现。
for the Czech and Slovak New Wave to emerge.
一个朋友常说，“文化试图踏进大门
A friend used to say, "Culture tries to get its foot in the door
当政♥府♥再次试图关上门的时候。
while the regime tries to shut the door again.
每一次政♥权♥失去一点控制，脚就会获得更多的地盘。”
Every time the regime loses a bit of grip, the foot gains more ground."
因此，在这20年里，政♥权♥交替收紧和放松控制。
So, during those 20 years, the regime alternately tightened and loosened its grip.
但它的优点是在60年代有一群人站出来
But the advantage of it was that in the '60s a group of people came forward
他们想做些新的事情，而且是出于对政♥权♥的厌恶。
who wanted to do something new, and were motivated by an aversion to the regime.
1965年、1966年、1967年，形势逐渐缓和。
In 1965, 1966, 1967, the situation got gradually more relaxed.
我们都在寻找机会去拍我们想拍的电影
And we all searched for opportunities to make films we wanted to make
电影。。。在那之前我们都做不到。
films that... we couldn't do until that time.
奥森·威尔斯说过，“很少的压♥迫♥有利于艺术”
Orson Welles said that, "Little oppression is good for art"
所以我认为我们
so I think it was a part of it that we
在一个压抑的环境中发展
were developing in an environment which was oppressive
我们不喜欢。
and we didn't like it.
在所有的暴行，经历，杀戮之后
After all the atrocities, experiences, the killings
以及我们在第二次世界大战中看到的一切
and everything that we saw during World War II
这看起来像是一个新的开始。
it looked like a new beginning.
共♥产♥主义承诺平等、自♥由♥、兄弟情谊。
Communism promised equality, freedom, brotherhood.
但在那之后，它的面貌发生了巨大的变化
But after that, it dramatically changed its face
我们突然发现我们被关在笼子里
and we suddenly found that we were in a cage
我们的关系非常密切
that we were razor wired
甚至不能谈论自♥由♥。
and couldn't even speak about freedom.
这是最高级别的失望
And that was a disappointment of the highest order
一个知识分子可能会受到打击。
that an intellectual can be hit by.
当然，那时我们还很年轻——19岁，20岁。
We were, of course, quite young back then - 19, 20 years old.
那是一个理想主义的时代。
That's a time of idealism.
20世纪50年代的现实更加残酷
And the realisation of the 1950s was even more cruel
当他们开始处决最聪明的共♥产♥主义者，
when they began executing the most intelligent communists
那些对
who were
他们的思想和哲学很坚定的人。
firm in their thoughts and philosophies.
然后处决发生了，真正可怕的是什么
Then the executions happened, and what was truly horrifying
是他们强迫这些重量级知识分子
was that they somehow forced these intellectual heavyweights to
称自己为罪犯，敌人，间谍。
call themselves criminals, enemies, spies.
真是难以置信。
That was unbelievable.
就在那时，我们不再喜欢共♥产♥主义了。
And that was when our liking for communism stopped.
我们知道必须做些什么来改变它。
We knew that something must be done to change it.
1969年，安东宁·列姆是60年代一位重要的电影评论家
In 1969, Antonín Liehm who was an important film critic in the '60s
后来在69年后离开了这个国家
subsequently left the country after '69
他在一篇文章中谈到了“捷克电影奇迹”。
wrote an article in which he talked about the "Czech Film Miracle".
所以这个词在当时也被使用。
So that term was used as well at that time.
我认为“新浪潮”，我不知道是谁创造的。
I think "New Wave", I'm not sure who coined it.
奇迹是捷克斯洛伐克电影业
The miracle was that the Czechoslovak film industry
是由国家资助的
was financed by the state
属于国家所有。
was owned by the state.
这是一件特别
This is something that especially
西欧影评人无法理解
the West European film critics could not understand
为什么共♥产♥党政♥府♥付钱给电影制♥作♥人来摧毁他们自己的政♥权♥。
why the communist government is paying filmmakers to destroy their own regime.
那是这个官僚共♥产♥主义政♥权♥衰弱的时期。
It was the time of the weakness of this bureaucratic communistic regime.
也就是说，他们失去了对一切的控制
That means, they were losing control of everything
这样我们就失去了权力集中的焦点。
and that way we were out of focus of the concentration of the power.
所以，他们两个都在打架
And so, they were fighting between the both
基本上，他们让文学、音乐和电影“有点”自♥由♥。
and basically they let literature, music and films 'sort of' freedom.
我们用它-我，希蒂洛娃，门泽尔，福尔曼，
And we used it - me, Chytilová, Menzel, Forman,
我们刚刚抓住了自♥由♥和自♥由♥的可能性
we just captured this possibility of the freedom and
我们拍了一部电影。
we made a film.
有时候这部电影是被禁的，就像
Sometimes it happened that the film was forbidden, like
关于聚会和客人的报告
A Report on the Party and the Guests
后来我被电影制片厂开除了
then I was expelled from the film studio
但我被允许在电视台工作，也被允许出国旅行
but I was allowed to work for TV, and I was allowed to travel abroad
比如说，在外企工作。
let's say, work for the foreign company.
这意味着这是相对自♥由♥的时代。
That means it was time of relative freedom.
世界上的一切都被破坏了。
Everything is spoiled in this world.
“一切”是什么意思？
What do you mean, "everything"?
你知道，一切。
You know, everything.
在这个世界上。。。
In this world...
你知道吗？
You know what?
当一切都被破坏的时候。。。
When everything is being spoiled...
然后呢？
What then?
我们将。。。
We'll...
被宠坏了。。。
be spoiled...
我也是。
too.
我们也是。
Us too.
正确的。
Right.
有问题吗？
Is that a problem?
一点也不！
Not at all!
进来。。。进来。。。请进
Come in... come in... come in
“新浪潮”这个名字只是记者们发明的
The name "New Wave" was simply invented by journalists
因为法国也出现了新的浪潮。
because there was also a New Wave in France.
最接近“捷克新浪潮”一词，毫无疑问
The closest to the term "Czech New Wave", without any doubt
伊日·门泽尔在严密监视的火车里吗
was Jiří Menzel in Closely Watched Trains
但是，当然，我们不应该忘记Věra Chytilová
but, of course, we shouldn't forget Věra Chytilová
那个真正搅动了那些停滞不前的职业水
who really stirred up those stagnant professional waters
巴兰多夫所做的让人恼火的事，更生动的事，而不是学术性的事。
of Barrandov by doing what was irritating, what was much more lively and not academic.
当摄影导演贾达什奥夫从《表亲》的投影中回来时
When the director of photography Jarda Šofr returned from a projection of Les Cousins
他觉得眼花缭乱，看完《表兄弟姐妹》后就发疯了。
he felt so dazzled, he was out of his mind after watching Les Cousins.
因此，我们在意大利电影中看到了电影表现的机会
Therefore, we saw the opportunities of film expression in Italian movies
但我们主要是从法国人那里认识他们的。
but we knew them mostly from the French.
我认为即使是薇拉·希蒂洛娃
And I think that even Věra Chytilová was
在她的第一部电影中，深受阿涅斯·瓦尔达的影响。
in her first movies, influenced greatly by Agnès Varda.
关于“新浪潮”的大事是。。。
The big drama about "La Nouvelle Vague" was this...
我们看到让·吕克·戈达尔在街上拍摄
We saw that Jean-Luc Godard was shooting in the street and all
所以很多制片人开始思考
so a lot of producers started to think
你可以做任何事，以任何你想做的方式和任何人在一起。
that you could do whatever, with whoever in any way you wanted.
但问题是，让-吕克有天赋，甚至可能有天才。
But the thing is that Jean-Luc had talent and maybe even had genius.
我们看得喘不过气来。我们看到了其他的东西。
We saw Breathless. We saw other things.
拍摄的方式是我能想到的最令人愉快的。
And the way of shooting was the most enjoyable I could think of.
那是非常。。。那是一段美妙的时光。
And it was very... It was an amazing time.
许多年后，在90年代
And many years later, in the '90s
当我拍摄一部法国合拍电影的时候
when I was shooting a French co-production film
法国制片人告诉我
the French producer told me
“你的短片。。。它看起来很像“戈达尔”。
"That short film of yours... it looks exactly like a Godard".
戈达尔从根本上影响了所有欧洲年轻导演
Godard influenced all young European directors so fundamentally
比如波兰导演斯科利莫夫斯基
that, for example Skolimowski, the Polish director
会像戈达尔一样打扫墙壁。
would clean the walls just like Godard.
我以为戈达尔
I thought Godard
有点像是破坏形式的教宗。
was sort of a Pope of the disruption of the form.
这让我很感兴趣。
That very much intrigued me.
在我的第一部电影里
And in my first film
我让自己被他感知空间的方式所影响。
I let myself be very influenced by the way he perceived space.
早些时候，在这里，以及在法国，电影拍摄主要是在工作室
Earlier here, as well as in France, the films were shot mainly in studios
用厚胶卷相机，在弱胶卷材料上拍摄
with heavy film cameras, shot on weak film material
那不是很敏感，需要复杂的照明。
that wasn't very sensitive and required complex lighting.
突然，他们带着带有同步声音的便携式摄像机走上街头。
Suddenly, they marched on to the streets with portable cameras with sync sound.
对我们来说，这是一个很大的灵感
For us it was a big inspiration
这就是为什么我们的电影也走出了制片厂。
and that's why our movies also went out of the studios.
出于这个原因，我想说他们更自然。
For that reason, I would say that they were much more natural.
嗨，米洛什！
Hi Miloš!
-嗨，妈！-你看起来很聪明。
- Hi Maša! - You're looking smart.
你看起来也不错，夫人。
You're looking nice too, Maša.
我知道，当我要去看门泽尔的电影时，
I know, when I'm going to see the Menzel film,