酷刑报告

他们当时在用水刑
They were using the waterboard.
祖贝达失去了意识
Zubaydah lost consciousness.
他差点窒息而死 溺水
He was choking to death, drowning.
不只是觉得自己溺水
Not just thinking he was drowning,
他是真的溺水了
he was actually fucking drowning.
他们跟我说水刑
I was told that the waterboard
是别无他法时才会用
was only gonna be used as a last resort.
承包商对囚犯做了评估
The contractors did an assessment of the prisoner,
-他们决定... -什么评估
- and they made a call... - What kind of assessment?
他们把他往墙上撞了几次
They bounced him off the walls a few times
然后把他捆着 往他喉咙里灌水
and then strapped him down and poured water down his throat.
我们知道这是一种不同的审讯手段
We understand this is a different approach,
-但它有科学依据 -科学
- but it's based on science. - Science?
得了吧 什么科学
Come on. What science?
-你见过他们的科学吗 -他们认为水刑
- Have you seen their science? - They believe the waterboard
起到了让囚犯服从的作用
is working here to create compliance.
他们当然这么想
Well, of course they do.
什么时候用是他们说了算
They're the ones who get to decide when it's used.
有没有效果也是他们说了算
And they're also the ones who get to decide if it's working.
这根本就不符合道德
How is that even ethical?
我们面对的这些人使日常生活武器化
The people we're dealing with weaponized daily life.
你想谈谈那事的道德吗
Would you like to talk about the ethics of that?
我们是来确保那样的事不会再发生
We're here to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again.
他们在某个山洞里训练自己的人
They're training their people to resist traditional interrogations
抵抗传统审讯
in the back of a cave somewhere.
所以我们需要改变方法
So we need to change our approach
免得又一炸♥弹♥爆♥炸♥ 又一幢楼坍塌
before another bomb goes off or another building falls down.
好吧 好吧
Okay, okay.
如果我们一个士兵被捕
What is gonna happen when one of our soldiers gets captured
拿出一张写着日内瓦公约的卡片
and takes out a card with the Geneva Convention on it
想被当人一样对待 会发生什么
and wants to be treated like a human being?
你以为抓他的人会不记得
You think his captors aren't gonna remember
这些人在这里受到了什么对待吗
the way these people were treated here?
-这都为了什么 -你家里有孩子吗
- And for what? - Do you have a kid at home?
我们不能再被打倒了
We're not gonna get beat again.
除了站长
Besides the chief of station,
你向上级汇报你的疑虑了吗
did you report your concerns up the chain of command?
罗德里格斯主任给我们发了电报
We got a cable from Director Rodriguez
告诉我们不要把审讯对象记录在案
telling us to stop putting our objections in writing.
不要有书面记录
No paper trail.
我告诉他们如果继续用新技术
I told them if they were gonna keep using the new techniques,
我想退出
I wanted out.
我不是唯一一个 大家都承受不住了
I wasn't the only one. Guys were choking up.
都在电邮里
It's all in the e-mails.
早在2001年11月
As early as November 2001,
参议员谢尔登·怀特豪斯 罗德岛州
中情局的法务团队传阅了一份报告
the CIA's legal team circulated a memorandum
描述了一种新的合法辩护
describing a novel legal defense
为他们可能涉及使用酷刑的人员脱罪
for their officers who might engage in torture.
不是吧 他们真的称之为酷刑吗
Come on. They actually called it torture?
中情局
The CIA?
他们忘了我们有法律禁止酷刑吗
They just forgot we have laws against that?
是的 长官 米切尔和杰森改其名为
Yes, sir. Mitchell and Jessen renamed it
"强化审讯"以帮助推广
"enhanced interrogation" to help sell it,
但中情局一个受押人都还没有的时候
but the Agency was talking about doing it
就在讨论那么做了
before they even had a single detainee.
参议员 我的问题是
My question, Senator, is:
中情局是怎么在还没囚犯时
How did the CIA know they needed to torture prisoners
就知道他们需要对囚犯施以酷刑
before they even had one?
这不是切尼和艾丁顿的主意吗
That didn't come from Cheney and Addington?
情况似乎恰恰相反
Seems like it happened the other way around.
中情局把这个项目带给布♥什♥政♥府♥
The CIA took it to the Bush White House
及法律顾问办公室的约翰·尤
and John Yoo at the Office of Legal Counsel.
现在情况是这样的
So, here's where we're at.
正如2340章所描述 酷刑罪
The crime of torture, as described in Section 2340,
法律顾问办公室
2002年7月
需要被告 即本案中的审讯者
requires that the defendant... in this case, an interrogator...
故意造成严重疼痛或痛苦
intends to cause severe pain or suffering.
但本案中 那不是审讯者的意图
But in this case, that's not the interrogator's intent.
没错 意图是获取情报 拯救美国人的生命
Right. The intent is to gain intel, save American lives.
可是约翰 万一审讯者采用的手段
But, John, what if the techniques the interrogator employs
还是会造成疼痛或痛苦呢
do nonetheless cause pain and suffering?
这怎么处理
How do we deal with that?
关键在于"严重疼痛或痛苦"
Well, the key phrase is "severe pain or suffering."
但其实2340章从未定义"严重"一词
But 2340 never actually defines the term "severe."
我们在医保条例中找到了这个定义
We found this definition in a Medicare statute.
严重疼痛或痛苦指的是
Severe pain or suffering:
"让人有严重危险且难以忍♥受的
"acute symptoms that place the individual in serious jeopardy
急性症状"
and are hard to endure."
意思是
Meaning?
要构成酷刑
To constitute torture,
造成的伤害必须达到器官衰竭
the damage done must rise to the level of organ failure,
身体机能损伤或死亡的程度
impairment of bodily function, or death.
所以基本上 如果有人死了 我们就做错了吗
So, basically, if someone dies, we're doing it wrong?
如果总统认为有必要
If the president deemed it necessary
碾碎一个孩子的睾丸
to... crush the testicles of a child
来阻止飞机撞向大楼
to stop a plane from crashing into a building,
以拯救美国人的生命
to save American lives,
没有法律或条约能阻止他
there is no law or treaty that could stop him.
我可以用同样的说法辩解
I can make the same argument for
挖出囚犯的眼睛或用酸浇他
gouging out a prisoner's eyes or dousing him with acid.
在我们看来
In our opinion,
如果它提供能拯救生命的独特情报
if it provides unique intelligence that saves lives,
且没有持续性伤害
and doesn't cause any lasting harm,
那么总统下令就是合法的
then it's legal for the president to order it.
"独特"指的是什么
What do we mean when we say "unique"?
无法通过其他方式获得的情报
Intelligence that couldn't have been obtained any other way.
你应该和白宫讨论过这一切吧
And you've discussed all of this with the White House, I assume?
还有呢
And?
他们告诉布♥什♥他们要怎么对待祖贝达了吗
Did they tell Bush what they were gonna do to Zubaydah?
-没有 -国♥家♥安♥全♥顾问赖斯
- No. - And National Security Advisor Rice...
她又在其中做了什么
where was she in all this?
国♥家♥安♥全♥顾问赖斯被告知了这个项目
National Security Advisor Rice was told about the program,
同时也被告知不要汇报总统
but she was also told the president would not be briefed.
谁让总统的国♥家♥安♥全♥顾问
Who tells the president's national security advisor
不要汇报总统
not to brief the president?
切尼和艾丁顿
Cheney and Addington.
根据中情局记录 布♥什♥直到2006年4月
According to CIA records, Bush wasn't told about the program
即四年后 才被告知这个项目
until April of 2006, four years later.
而且根据我们找到的记录
And the records we found state
总统终于获知项目时
that when the president was finally told about the program,
看到影像上一个受押人
he expressed discomfort with the image of a detainee
被拴在天花板上 穿着尿片
chained to the ceiling, wearing a diaper,
被逼排泄在自己身上 他表达了不适
and forced to go to the bathroom on himself.
你还要多久才能完成报告 丹
How long till you can get this thing done, Dan?
我们必须公之于众
We've got to get this out.
这个人呢 古尔·拉赫曼
What about this guy, Gul Rahman?
2002年11月在白沙瓦被捕
Captured in Peshawar, November 2002.
他不在关塔那摩 哪也没有他
He's not at Gitmo. He's-he's not anywhere.
古尔·拉赫曼
Gul Rahman.
古尔
Gul...
没有 他们没对委员会说起他
No. They didn't tell the committee about him.
他是24号♥受押人
He's detainee number 24.
古尔·拉赫曼
手脚被拷
使囚犯精神错乱
听觉超负荷
总部说他知道基♥地♥组♥织♥的行动细节
HQ says he knows operational detail about Al Qaeda.
粗暴摔倒
有窗口的金属门 墙上有锁链
摄像头 桶 墙底部有开口
中情局总部观察了寇博特羁押处的审讯
这家伙是个混♥蛋♥
The guy's an asshole.
钴蓝拘留点
2002年11月
用食物砸我们 威胁要杀了警卫