艾希曼（2007）

大家都知道
Everyone did.
所以遣送怎么能不算做杀戮
So how does deportation not amount to killing?
很简单
Simple.
决定谁被选入
It wasn't my job to decide
谁不被选 不是我的工作
who was selected for the work process and who was not.
卫斯理舍尼在纽伦堡实录指出
Wisliceny in his Nuremberg memoir suggests the existence
在你的部门里有持续的死亡记录
of a sustained culture of death in your department.
我会告诉你这是不可信的
I will tell you how reliable his memoirs are.
他们说希♥特♥勒♥的命令可能失灵
They say there were ways of circumventing Hitler's orders.
有一种办法 只有一种办法
There was one way, and only one way:
拿起手♥枪♥朝自己开枪
to take a pistol and shoot yourself.
但是我服从他的命令
But I obeyed.
无论说什么我都执行
Regardless of what I was ordered to do, I would have obeyed.
我不能离开我的肉体 上尉 这就是我那时的观点
I can't shed my skin, Captain, that was my attitude at the time.
当我接到指令我就遵从
When I received an order, I obeyed, because an oath is an oath,
因为誓言就是誓言
and I had taken an oath of loyalty.
我发誓效忠 我拒绝为不是我下令的事负责
I refuse to take responsibility for things I had no orders for
拒绝为不是我部门的事负责
and which were not my department.
与此同时，我不是那种
At the same time, I'm not one of those people
在战争结束的时候高喊 我是一直反战的人
who said suddenly at the war's end, "I was always against it",
他们为了活命编造冠冕堂皇的理由
who tried to save their necks with tawdry explanations.
吃啊 吃 吃 吃
我今晚不饿
I'm not feeling so hungry tonight.
在您到达匈牙利的第一时间里
How many Jews were evacuated from Hungary
有多少犹太人从匈牙利撤离呢
in the first period you were there?
这个我们已经说过很多次了 上尉
We've been over this so many times, Captain.
是多少
How many?
大约45万
450,000, probably.
你在布达佩斯犹太议会上说
Is it true you told the Jewish Council in Budapest
你只能救完全听你指挥的犹太人 是吗
that they could only save Jews by fully cooperating with you?
跟你合作需要多少钱 艾希曼先生
How much money does it cost to cooperate with you, Herr Eichmann?
我从不收钱释放犹太人
I never took money to release Jews.
我从布达佩斯犹太议会主席卡斯特纳处
I have an account here from Doctor Kastner.
获得一个材料
Head of the Jewish Council in Budapest.
艾希曼说
Eichmann said, quote:
卡斯特纳
Kastner!
我要把这些犹太混账赶走
I've got to clean this Jewish shit out of the provinces!
任何辩论或眼泪都不管用
And no arguments or tears will help!
你不担心所有匈牙利犹太人 都中毒气身亡吗
Don't you worry if all the Hungarian Jews have been gassed.
给我卡车吧
Just get me the lorries!
给我送走波兰犹太人和捷克犹太人
I deliver Polish Jews or Czech Jews!
太夸张了 事实只占很小一部分
There's a grain of truth in it with a lot of theatrical trimmings,
但即使是卡斯特纳也没有提钱
but even Kastner doesn't mention money.
用犹太人换钱
"Jewish shit in exchange for lorries.
是的，那些脏话
Yes, those bad words.
我绝不会用这些肮脏的字眼
I certainly didn't use those bad words.
所以货车是现金的来源
So lorries were the currency?
是的 我们经济紧张
Yes, we had a shortage.
卡斯特纳还建议你
Kastner also asked you
被迫撤离车辆不要
to reduce the overcrowding in the forced evacuation
安排得如此拥挤
citing the fact that 90 persons
90人挤在一个荷载40人的车厢里
had been crammed into a single rail car designated for 40.
大多数都是小孩子
Most of the overfillments were actually small children.
所以这些孩子会被送到哪儿
So where would these children have been going?
达豪（集中营）
Dachau.
上尉
Captain?
什么事
Ya.
能和你聊聊吗
Do you have a moment?
你是谁
Who are you?
我是耶路撒冷邮报记者
I work for The Post
我不能回答你的问题 我想我说得够清楚了
I can't talk to you. I thought I made that clear.
我知道你父亲的情况
I know about your father.
你想获得什么
What do you want?
你的故事
Your story.
我不是新闻 艾希曼才是
I'm not the headline. Eichmann is.
艾希曼的审问者
Is it appropriate for the interrogator of Eichmann
是奥斯维辛毒气受害者的儿子 这合适吗
to be the son of one of many gassed at Auschwitz?
这就是你的角度吗
Is that your angle?
是的
Yeah.
这个故事应该非常棒
It's a great story.
你能证明吗
Can you prove it?
上尉 流言不会如此准确
Captain, we wouldn't have gotten this far with me bluffing.
它是怎么知道的
How did you find out?
给我两周时间
Just give me two weeks.
独家吗
Exclusive?
我想知道所有情况
I want to know everything.
我想知道你父亲亚伯拉罕的全部情况 他是谁 他是怎样的人
I want "Avner the man, who he is, what he is,
他的家庭情况和工作情况
his family life, his professional life.
家庭吗 - 不 不
Family? - No. No.
你还想要时间吗 阿夫纳上尉
Do you want the time, Avner?
我需要两周时间
I need two weeks.
你给你一周
I'll give you one.
我先挂了
Gotta go.
阿夫纳 我能为你做什么
Avner, what can I do for you?
别再跟记者发♥生♥关♥系♥了
You can stop getting your schlong sucked by journalists, for a start.
您今晚必须走吗
Do you really have to go tonight?
您看起来很累
You look tired.
你该睡一会了
Do you ever sleep?
孩子们问你去哪儿了
Your children are asking where you are.
我只有5天了
I have five more days.
5天
Five.
将吉普赛人发配到死亡营
Was the deportation of the Gypsies to the death camps
是你的IV.B4部门负责的吗
handled by your bureau 1V.B4?
不是所有吉普赛人 只是从德国去的
Not all the Gypsies. Just the ones from Germany.
所谓在大帝国里逮捕的所有吉普赛人
All the Gypsies who were apprehended
都被送到奥斯维辛毒死
inside the so-called Greater Reich were taken to Auschwitz and gassed.
我们仅仅提供
Captain, all I know is we had to make
所有可用的机车 并制定计划
the rolling-stock available and draw up schedules and--
指导原则是什么
What were the guidelines?
指导原则吗
Guidelines?
消灭吉普赛人的
For exterminating the Gypsies.
指导原则很简单
The guidelines for the Gypsies were simple.
没有
There weren't any.
为什么要消灭所有吉普赛人
So, why exterminate all the Gypsies?
哦 我不知道
Oh, I don't know.
和其他很多事一样
It was one of those things.
突然接到命令
All of a sudden,
就这么毫无疑问地发生了
the order goes out, and it happens without questions.
50万吉普赛人被赶在一起
A half a million Gypsies rounded up and transported
运走并接受IV.B4部门的特别款待（毒气）
for special treatment by Bureau 1V.B4.
就这样
Just like that.
瓦纳克的纽伦堡证词
Some more Nuremberg testimony from Waneck.
艾希曼接到命令后
"Eichmann came to see Hoss at Auschwitz
艾希曼前往奥斯维辛会见霍斯
after Hoss received orders
从帝国元首那里收到了消灭犹太人的命令
for exterminating the Jews from the Reichsführer.
我不明白你的意思
I don't know what you mean.
另一个该死的
Another condemned man
试图转移对他的注意力
trying to divert attention from his own position.
这封信是关于制♥造♥毒气的 不是吗
This letter is about the production of gas, is it not?
他总是在掩盖他的罪行
He was always covering his tracks,
因为有一天他要对问题负责
because one day he could be held to account.
你的部门是否派出监管人员
Did your department 1V.B4 provide any supervisory personnel
监督运送到里加死亡营
for the shipments to the extermination camps of Riga?
我是运输官
I was the transport officer.
自从政策制定 从来没有人跟我说
I was never consulted when policies were made.
我们的发现并非如此
Not according to our findings.
你说与你无关
You said you had nothing to do with this.
这是你的观点吗 上尉
What is your point, Captain?
对犹太人的肉体的完全摧残
What was your attitude towards the total
以及所谓的“最终方案”
physical destruction of the Jewish people
你是什么态度