艾希曼（2007）

And there is no documentation involving me.
你给的是口头指示
You could have given verbal instructions.
我记得有一次谈话时 讨论了一些这样的事情
I can remember a conversation discussing some such items,
但讨论的只是第四部门 我的部门并没有参与
but Section IV, my section, was not involved.
那么为什么你咨♥询♥有关骷髅的问题
So why, then, are you being consulted about skulls
如果您并不知道谋杀
if you weren't aware of the deaths,
不知道这些脑袋将装在特制的
and that the heads were then transported
独♥立♥小盒子被运往斯特拉斯堡吗
in specially made, individual caskets to Strasbourg?
我尽力了
I'm racking my brains.
我没有想起来 上尉 没想起来
I have no idea, Captain. No idea.
我以前从来没有害怕过
I was never frightened before.
即使是在法国基布兹
Not even when we were running from the gendarmes
我们从宪兵的手里逃脱的时候
in the kibbutz in France.
你是否记得在1945年4月6日
Do you recall receiving a Red Cross representative
在访问特莱西恩施塔特时 受到一个红十字专家的询问吗
on the 6th of April 1945 in a visit to Theresienstadt?
是的
Yes.
但我不记得他的名字
But I can't remember his name.
杜布瓦
Dubois?
他的报告说
His report says,
在1945年4月6日
"On April 6th, 1945
我们到访了犹太贫民区
（捷克斯洛伐克 特莱西恩施塔特）
we visited the Theresienstadt ghetto
并与犹太问题专家 帝国党卫军副执行艾希曼
and had lengthy conferences with Obersturmbannführer Eichmann,
开了个冗长的会议
the direct Deputy of the Reichsführer SS,
所有犹太问题的专家
the specialist of all Jewish questions.
杜布瓦写道 他问你谁授权了运输
Dubois writes that he asked you who authorized for the transports,
但他没有得到答案
but he didn't get an answer.
在战争的这个阶段
At this stage in the war,
所有相关部门都在施加压力
every conceivable department is exerting pressure
要求把所有人运到特莱西恩施塔特
shipping everyone here to Theresienstadt.
你们有多少辆运输车
And how many of your transports
参与了前往奥斯威辛集中营的行动
have been involved in movement to Auschwitz?
数字 你可得问爱普斯坦医生
You will have to ask Doctor Epstein about numbers.
但他说你知道这些数字
But he says you have the figures.
艾希曼先生把犹太人送到 奥斯维辛集中营的毒气室
Herr Eichmann, is shipping Jews to the gas chambers of Auschwitz
你认为这是缓解特莱西恩施塔特集中营的压力吗
a humane way of relieving pressure at Theresienstadt in your view?
我只是服从命令
I was obeying orders.
你服从谁的命令
Whose orders were you obeying?
阿道夫·希♥特♥勒♥的
Hitler's.
但我想你直接对希姆莱负责
But I thought you were directly responsible to Himmler?
你什么意思 上尉
What is your point, Captain?
我只是试着确定 你是否是以命令行事
I am simply trying to ascertain, Herr Eichmann
或者你是否执行你自己的命令
if you were acting under orders.
或者是什么
Or what?
或者是你在自己的授权下行事
Or whether you were acting under your own authority.
不 不 不
No, no, no, no.
然而，如果他只是作为一个
Whereas, if he was just taking following orders
普通的军官执行命令
as a simple transportation officer,
这与他说的截然相反
this completely contradicts anything that he says.
是的 先生
Yes, sir.
请继续 汉斯
Please, please, go on, Hans.
有一个住在圣路易斯的犹太教士
Well, there's a Rabbi living in St. Louis now
声称他知道有人见到艾希曼杀过婴儿
who claims he knows somebody who saw Eichmann shooting a baby.
目击证人呢
And the primary witness?
他已经死了
She's dead.
那就算了吧
Then, forget it.
所以 上尉
So, Captain...
你怎么样
...how are you?
我想谈一谈我的安全
I want to talk to you about my protection, Minister.
我的家门一直被人破坏 - 是的，我听说了
My door was vandalized. -Yes. Yes, I heard about that.
值班人员受到训斥
The officer on duty has been reprimanded.
我想要确保你没事 阿夫纳
I want to assure you, Avner,
我们对这些威胁家庭的事 严肃处理
that we take these threats on your family very seriously.
我也希望
As do I
现在有了死刑
There is now a death penalty.
我得先跟我的顾问谈
You see, I have to talk more to my counselors first.
明天见
I'll see you again tomorrow.
非常谢谢 - 不客气
Thank you so much. -You're very welcome.
那是谁
Who is that?
你好 上尉
Captain Less.
你好
Yes.
很高兴见到你 罗伯特·瑟法斯博士
Pleased to meet you. Doctor Robert Servatius.
辩护律师
Counsel for the defense.
先生们
Gentlemen.
上尉 听到我的好消息了吗
Have you heard my good news, Captain?
我看了文字记录
I've been going through the transcripts.
还不足以定罪
There's not enough.
什么不够
Enough what?
在法庭上
Enough hard evidence
他的律师不能否认的确凿证据
that his lawyer can't chip away at in court
他可能被引渡到德国
or get him extradited to Germany.
在德国没有死刑
There's no death penalty in Germany,
多么具有讽刺意味
which is ironic.
你知道，我不得不派
You know, I've had to send researchers
调查员到世界各地 和幸存者谈
all over the world at vast expense to talk to survivors,
但我得有支持他们证据的真实忏悔
but I have to support their evidence with an actual confession.
他永远不会忏悔
He'll never confess.
他不会对任何事承认负有责任
He won't admit he's guilty of anything.
你不想要他忏悔吗 阿夫纳
Don't you want a confession, Avner?
你怎么能这么幼稚
You're approaching this like some schtetl Jew.
我并不在乎他是否有一打的犹太情人
I'm not interested if he had a dozen Jewish mistresses.
我需要的是他认罪
I want an admission of guilt.
我也是 莫迪凯
So do I, Mordecai.
谢谢 亲爱的先生
Thank you, my dear sir.
我在想我们有很多共同点
I was thinking we have a great deal in common.
和你一样 我也是执行命令的警官
Like you, I was a police officer following orders.
你是纳粹党卫队的 不是警官
You were SS, not police.
不小心就忘了
Easy to forget.
你目睹了犹太人被枪杀
You witnessed Jews being shot.
一开始我并不知道发生了什么事
I didn't know what was going on at first.
因为这种事与我无关
Because that kind of thing was nothing to do with me.
当我意识到的时候 我为发生的事情非常难过
When I realized, I became ill at what was happening.
我吐了
I threw up.
我被如此不人道的行为震惊得说不出话来
I could hardly speak at the inhumanity.
我们有证词证明你在绞刑现场出现
We have several depositions that you were present at hangings.
那不是我
That wasn't me.
这么糟的事情我会记得的
I would have remembered such a terrible thing.
根据我们的情报 你干预了
According to our informants, you intervened
要求套索不应再被使用
and required the nooses to be re-used,
尽管这样速度快
because although it was faster to cut them down,
但犹太人的死刑用套索就是浪费
a Jewish life was not worth the waste of rope.
这不是真的
That's a lie.
完全是编造的
A complete fabrication.
我和杀害犹太人无关
I had nothing to do with killing Jews.
我从未杀害任何一个犹太人
I've never killed a Jew.
我也没有指使任何人杀犹太人
I've never ordered anyone to kill a Jew.
或许这给我带来了内心的安宁
Maybe that is what gives me a certain peace of mind.
我或许有罪 因为帮助转移犹太人
I might be guilty because I helped with evacuation.
一氧化碳被证实无效
But carbon monoxide was proving inefficient.
所以你开始寻找其他的途径
So you began researching other means of killing.
并不怀疑你
It is not your intentions
作为指挥官的能力
as a Kommandant here that are in question
但你要理解效率
but your understanding of efficiency.
研发了奥斯威辛齐克隆B气体新技术
Zyklon B has been developed after successful use
在成功除去衣物上的虱子后
in delousing garments,
它一定会和人体寄生虫一样有效
and it is bound to be just as efficient with human vermin.
如果这种气体在一定的空间里运用得当
If this new gas is administered correctly in this volume of space,
处理过程不需要等待
there is no need for any interludes in the cycle.
那时候你知道
Did you have official knowledge then
齐克隆B气体新技术 究竟用来干什么吗
that this new technique of gassing with Zyklon B was going on?
我知道 当然知道
I knew it. Of course I did.