猎食者：日本流行音乐的秘密丑闻（2023）

- Come in. - Thank you.
你的住所很棒
It's a lovely place you've got here.
当我与这些幸存者会面时
When I've met some of these survivors,
他们不愿承认
they won't acknowledge that
自己曾遭到了性侵
what happened to them was abuse.
他们几乎都反对
They almost protest at the suggestion
将此称为"性侵"
that it was abusive.
我想知道你先前是否曾遇到过这种情况
And I wondered if that's something you've come across before?
是的 我是说
Yeah, I mean,
某种程度上 这算是一种自我保护
it can be self-protection in some ways,
但是性侵造就了这种特殊的纽带 对吧
but sexual abuse makes this special bond, right?
这就是情绪操作的意义所在
That's what the grooming is all about.
为了生存下去 你不会想要去反抗 对吗
In order to survive, you don't want to fight, right?
那么 与其说这是痛苦的 创伤性的性侵
So, rather than painful, traumatic sexual abuse,
就不如让这事变得更有趣 有爱
why not make it more fun and loving?
施虐者经常使用这种方式
And often abusers use that.
当身体受到带性意味的触摸
I mean, it's very natural for our body
我们的身体感受到愉悦
to feel pleasure
是很自然的事情
if you are touched sexually,
哪怕你并不想这样
even if you don't want it.
施虐者经常这样告诉他们
And often abusers themselves tell them, you know,
看看你的身体 正在有生理反应
"Look at your body, it's physically reacting,
你一定很享受吧
"you must be enjoying it."
这些就是让性创伤变得
And those are the things that makes sexual trauma
如此复杂和令人困惑的原因
so complex and so confusing.
在日文中 这叫羞耻文化 对吧
Japanese, it's called culture of shame, right?
这是私人问题
Your personal problem.
不会公开讨论
You don't talk about it.
然而性侵 让这变得更难启齿
And sexual abuse, I mean, makes even harder.
受害者为男性时 就更加难以启齿
And for male sexual abuse, even extra harder.
这当中有一层又一层的阻碍
There's kind of layer upon layer upon layer of barrier
阻止他们说出来
which is stopping them speaking.
受害者公开谈论此事
For the survivors to go public,
需要莫大的勇气
it's a very courageous thing.
但是 恢复的第一步
But the, like, first step of the recovery
是真正的意识到 自己曾遭到过侵害
is to really acknowledge that abuse has happened.
根据我的交流结果
From the people I've spoken to,
约翰尼的侵害持续了至少三十年
it seems that Johnny's abuse spanned at least 30 years.
而这个以他名字命名的公♥司♥依然发展强势
The fact that the company bearing his name is still going strong
对我来说难以置信
is unbelievable to me.
据估计 公♥司♥的年收入
And it's estimated that the firm is making
大约有五亿英镑之多
half a billion pounds a year.
大多都来自于男团的忠实粉丝们
Most likely some of that cash is from the royalties of bands
而男团的成员都遭受过约翰尼的魔爪
featuring boys that Johnny abused.
这看起来大错特错
It all seems so entirely wrong.
但为此寻求正义的行动甚至根本没开始
But that conversation about finding justice hasn't even started.
你对约翰尼·喜多川有什么看法
What do you know about Johnny Kitagawa?
对于他对公♥司♥男艺人们的不当行为
There's allegations about misconduct,
一直有各种指控
about how he treated the boys.
我听到过一些传闻
但既然他已经去世了
我不太想谈这个话题
现在在日本 和性少数群体有关的问题
还没有被广泛认知
我是同性恋 但民众对这种事所知甚少
在约翰尼声名鹊起的时代
还没有LGBT这样的词汇
所以这会对偶像们产生负面影响
但一个人的取向 和他与未成年人发♥生♥关♥系♥
There's a complete difference between someone's preference
是完全不同概念的两件事
and someone having sex with children.
坦白说 我不认为这值得去调查
谢谢你接受访问
Thank you so much for your time.
很感谢 谢谢你
I really appreciate it. Thank you.
-很高兴认识你 -谢谢
- Really nice to meet you. - Thank you.
保重
Take care.
关于约翰尼·喜多川到底是怎样的人的谈话
The conversation around who Johnny Kitagawa actually is
没有朝我预料的方向发展
didn't go in the direction I was expecting it
因为人们似乎完全把他看做一个媒体之神
because people are absolutely aware of him as a media mogul,
但他们似乎也知道
but then they also seem to be aware
他收到过性侵指控
of these allegations of abuse.
那么为什么后者不会被提到
Why is that not part of the conversation here?
似乎没人一上来就会想到此事
It just seems to be an afterthought.
另外一位J-P百科名单上的人回复了我
I heard back from another one of the men listed on J-Pedia.
他被称为"伦" 在大阪一个地区工作
He's called Ren and works in a district of Osaka
那里以取悦女性的牛郎店著称
famous for host clubs where men are paid to entertain women.
伦是他所在店面的高人气牛郎
Ren is one of the most popular men at his club.
但这并不是他的第一份工作
But this isn't his first career.
伦吗 你好 你好吗 我是莫宾
Ren? Hello! Hello. All right? How are you doing? Mobeen.
他曾是约翰尼公♥司♥的少年团员
He used to be a Junior and was at Johnny's agency
直到他2019年去世才离开
until 2019 when Johnny died.
这地方真不错
This is quite a place!
对 对 很不错
Yeah. Yeah, it's very nice.
他也许知道约翰尼在临终时期
He might know if Johnny was still abusing boys
是不是还在侵害男孩们
at the end of his life.
我来日本是为了调查
I'm in Japan because I'm looking at the story
杰尼斯和约翰尼·喜多川的事
of Johnny's and Johnny Kitagawa.
我知道你也曾是他们中的一员
I know you used to be part of that world.
请告诉我你如何进入的公♥司♥
So tell me how you got into it.
能把儿子送进杰尼斯是我妈妈的梦想
当杰尼斯事务所联♥系♥我们时
我妈妈喜极而泣
那时候 你是不是觉得那可能是你
At that point, were you thinking this was, like,
飞黄腾达的起点
your golden ticket?
我家人觉得 "天啊 他会挣很多钱"
我的家境并不富裕
感觉像做梦一样 我当时不敢相信
很多之前和我沟通的人
So many of the guys I've spoken to,
当被追问到他们和约翰尼喜多川的关系时
when you really push them to talk about their relationship
最终都会说
with Johnny Kitagawa, ultimately they say,
"对 那样是错的 并不应该发生这种事"
"Yeah, it was wrong. It shouldn't have happened."
关于约翰尼的性骚扰指控
坦率的说 我觉得并没有那么糟糕
他们被侵害了
They were abused.
他和他们发♥生♥关♥系♥
He had sex with them.
而他们还都是孩子
And they were boys at the time.
对此你怎么想的
How do you process that?
当时确实有传言说 如果接受约翰尼的要求
你就可以被推成名
所以我觉得双方都不应该承担指责
如果是你被那样对待会作何反应
How would you have responded to that kind of treatment?
说实话 我的梦想就是一举成名
所以我觉得如果遇到 我会接受
我真的...
And I just...
我脑子有一点不太能转过弯来
I'm kind of having trouble wrapping my head around this.
但今天...你多大了
But today... How old are you now?
23岁
那么 作为一个23岁的成年人
So, as a 23-year-old man now,
你是说 如果那种交易摆在你面前
are you saying if that deal was put in front of you,
你会依从约翰尼·喜多川的要求...
you would do what Johnny Kitagawa wanted...
...只要这么做能让你的演艺生涯能有发展
..if it meant that your career would work out
让你成名 对吗
and you'd become famous?
我觉得我会的
我觉得自己此前从未就潜规则一事
I don't think I've ever heard such a blunt explanation
听到过如此直白的评述
of the culture of the casting couch.
我也真的很感谢他的坦诚
And I really appreciate that honesty.
但我内心的一部分...
But there's a little bit of me...
...听完他的描述后 感觉死去了
..that kind of died when he said,
尤其他说如果他要去见喜多川
if he had to go there
并能被保证可以成名的话
and he had a guarantee it would make him famous,
他会顺从那种侵害
he'd do it.
其实约翰尼·喜多川不曾剥削他
The fact that Johnny Kitagawa didn't exploit him
是他的幸运
is a lucky escape.
但对他来说 想的却是那种侵害能带来的好处
To him, he's thinking about what could have been.
太让人心碎了
That's kind of heartbreaking.
《约翰尼》（单曲名）-赤西仁
#记得约翰尼第一次走过我身边#
# I remember Johnny first walked by me
#就知道我会让你难以忘记#
# Knew I had to fuck your mind... #
当约翰尼·喜多川在2019年过世后
When Johnny Kitagawa dies in 2019,
公众哀悼之情喷涌而出
there's this public outpouring of grief.
还有一位约翰尼旗下的艺人
And then you've got one of the Johnny's boys.
他名叫赤西仁
He's called Jin.
#记得约翰尼第一次走过我身边#
# I remember Johnny first walked by me... #
他写了一首歌♥
He puts out this song.
听一下 这是首情歌♥