猎食者：日本流行音乐的秘密丑闻（2023）

我理解那是他工作的一部分
I understand that was part of his job.
但是他除了会出现在你们的工作场所
But did it go beyond him coming to what was,
还会有的活动吗
I guess, your workplace?
他会邀请我们去吃饭 看电影或者兜风
那并不少见
那他的家呢
What about at his house?
他邀请你回过他家吗
Did he ever invite you back to the house?
当然有 那是他住的地方 就在那边
五楼被用来当作宿舍
这勾起了我的回忆
我只想让你分享你愿意说的事
I only want you to share what you're comfortable with.
约翰尼肯定是有某种癖好的人
他对孩子们肯定过于亲昵了
我记得只有一个男孩不喜欢这样 逃走了
你指的是什么
What does that refer to?
他的双手在我们全身上下到处摸
玩弄男孩们的私处
那时候
At the time,
其他孩子知不知道
was there an understanding amongst the other boys...
这根本就是不对的事情
that this is something that is fundamentally wrong?
男孩们也就小学中学的年纪 大多都没有性经验
我们现在还会拿他们跟约翰尼的初体验开玩笑
肯定有人当时不懂 任他那样做 之后很是痛苦
但也有懂的孩子 仍说着"约翰尼我爱你"投入他的怀抱
事实上 我印象是孩子们在争夺约翰尼的注意
所以你自己不会觉得
So you wouldn't consider that, with yourself,
这已经越界了
a boundary was overstepped?
他没有对我那么过分
我没有受到性侵
只是有一些有点过分的按♥摩♥
那里真的感觉像家一样
回想过去 你觉得那些在这里待过的男孩们
Looking back, do you think any of the parents of the boys
他们的父母知不知道这里发生了什么
that were here had any idea about what was going on?
当然知道 父母们知道真实的情况
但是他们想让自己的孩子去
他们对孩子说 你最好主动给约翰尼献身
众所周知约翰尼是个同性恋 喜欢男孩
他们知道 但是他们没有拒绝
你有没有意识到 这是逾越了法律边界的
Can you see how that goes beyond a boundary...
是真正的犯罪
into actually being criminal?
如果他是个罪犯 或者犯了罪
他就不会得到那么多支持
但是日本接受了他 还让他扶摇直上
日本就是这样的
纯也不认为有任何性侵发生
Junya doesn't believe that any abuse took place.
我们很容易怒其不争
And it's really easy to be angry with him.
但是我觉得这样不公平 因为说到底
But I don't think that's fair because, ultimately,
他还没有完全理解那段经历
he has not processed what happened.
他仍然非常尊重肇事者
He still holds the perpetrator in high esteem.
约翰尼的性侵在日本已经不是秘密
Johnny's abuse was no secret in Japan.
对此事的沉默几乎和虐待本身
The silence that surrounded it is almost as terrifying
一样可怕
as the abuse itself.
我一直在想 此事的范围有多大
I can't stop thinking about the scale.
持续了多长时间
How long did this go on
多少人的生活受到了影响
and how many lives has it affected?
想要联♥系♥到杰尼斯事务所的核心领导层
Getting in touch with the establishment
并不容易
of Johnny's Associates isn't easy,
但是有个网站叫J-P百科
but there's a website called J-Pedia.
这是有关约翰尼所有事情的百科全书
So it's an encyclopaedia of all things Johnny's.
应该是粉丝建立的
I reckon it's probably put together by fans,
但内容做得有模有样
but this is some serious work,
这里有一份少年团的成员名单
so it's got a list of everyone that was in the Juniors.
这可以追溯到50年代
It goes back to the '50s.
也就是约翰尼·喜多川本人
So this is when Johnny Kitagawa himself...
职业生涯起步的时候
..Would've been starting off his career.
当年他才二十多岁
So he was in his 20s.
要找到那些出道成名的名字
It's easy to know the names of the guys
很容易
that actually made it.
而这网站则能告诉你
The difference is this tells you the names
那些没能出道的名字
of the guys that didn't make it.
这真是宝藏
And this is gold.
因为这份名单里
Because with this list,
有许多我可以尝试去联♥系♥的人
that's just a whole bunch of people that I can try to contact.
我按着J-P百科上的名单
Message after message went out to
一条接一条地发消息
the names listed on J-Pedia.
我想大多数人都直接删了消息 这可以理解
Understandably, I imagine most people just clicked delete.
但有一个人回复了我
But one man came back to me.
-你好 -嗨 你好
- Hello. - Hi. Hello.
-莫宾 很高兴见到你 -很高兴见到你
- Mobeen. Really nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you.
隆在2002年加入了杰尼斯事务所
Ryu joined Johnny & Associates in 2002
在少年团待了十年
and was a Junior for ten years.
他进入事务所时 纯也的书已经出版多年
He was at the agency way after Junya's book came out
性侵指控也早已见诸杂♥志♥
and the allegations of abuse had been published in a magazine.
感谢你今天抽出时间来见我
Thanks for taking the time out to see me today.
和我对谈过的几位当时还是男孩的男性
Some of the men that I've spoken to who were boys at the time,
他们告诉我 约翰尼可以
they've told me about a kind of a tease
玩弄你 对你为所欲为
that Johnny could have his way with you.
我想知道你是否曾见过或是经历过
I want to know if you ever saw or experienced...
约翰尼·喜多川对男孩们的性兴趣
..Johnny Kitagawa's sexual interest in boys?
我知道 我亲身曾经历过
你可以告诉我发生了什么吗
Can you tell me what happened?
我去了他家 共进晚餐 洗了澡
我回到卧室后 约翰尼进来
说什么"你太辛苦了 我来给你按♥摩♥"
随后他给我按♥摩♥了
我觉得老板给艺人按♥摩♥很奇怪
我说 应该反过来才对
我会觉得一个员工给他们的老板按♥摩♥
I would say that an employee massaging their boss,
或反过来 都是明显的跨越边界的行为
or vice versa, is crossing a clear boundary.
你懂的 这里有不对劲的地方
You know, there's something wrong going on there.
请你尽可能说得明白详细些
Please be as open as you possibly can be.
具体都发生了什么呢
But what actually happened?
他从我的肩膀开始 逐步往下
我从朋友那里听说过这事
所以我以为 这次轮到我了
但在某个时刻 事情有些过火了
我说 不要再更进一步了
我当时能够很清楚地说出来
他一边道歉 一边去了别的房♥间
你当时多少岁
How old were you?
我当时大概16岁
那他当时多少岁
And how old was he?
大概是
70多岁吧
你是否有留意到约翰尼·喜多川
Were you aware of Johnny Kitagawa
对其他男孩们越界了呢
going further with other boys?
他们不会告诉我详情 但我听说发生了很多次
但你似乎真的很不情愿去说
But you seem really reluctant to say
约翰尼所做的事是错的
what Johnny did was wrong.
为什么呢
Why is that?
是啊 为什么呢
当然了 非要分个对错的话
他所做的事情必然是错误的
简单来说 我不讨厌约翰尼
实际上我喜欢他 乃至现在我也爱他
请原谅我 我实在无法理解这个
Forgive me, but I can't wrap my head around this.
我真的不能
I really can't.
实话说 约翰尼非常棒 我欠他许多
我仍旧认为我们受到了许多爱护
这对我来说并不是问题 或许这也是
我现在仍旧能笑着讨论此事的原因
那次谈话中的某些部分
There were parts of that conversation
对我来说很难理解
that are just insanity to me.
但我不认为他真的承认自己的遭遇
But I don't think he's acknowledged anything that happened,
这就是所谓的情绪操控
and that's what grooming is.
情绪操控旨在创建一种氛围
Grooming is about creating an environment
让正在被剥削的人
in which the person you're exploiting
认为与剥削者有着特别的感情
feels that there's a special relationship.
在我们的谈话中
There were parts of that conversation
他甚至说到了尊敬
where he was talking about respect.
甚至还有爱
I would even say love.
约翰尼对他就是有那种程度的控制
You know, Johnny has that level of control over him.
我想了很多关于隆的事情
I've been thinking a lot about Ryu.
我担心他没有接受他所经历的一切
I worry he's not come to terms with what he went through.
要去开启这个过程
For that process to start,
也许他应该找人谈谈
maybe he should speak to someone.
但日本社会并不很重视这种事
But that's not a big part of the culture here.
虽然日本的人口是英国的两倍
Although Japan has twice the population of the UK,
但心理学家的数量却是一样的
it has the same number of psychologists.
我正离开东京并前往西部
I'm leaving Tokyo and travelling west
去会见这个国家唯一专门
to meet one of the only therapists in the country
帮助性侵中的男性受害者的
who specialises in helping male survivors
心理治疗师之一
of sexual abuse.
嗨 信树 我是莫宾
Hey, Nobuki. Mobeen.
你好 很高兴见到你
Hello. Nice to meet you.
我是信树 很高兴见到你
Nobuki. Nice to meet you.
-你好吗 感谢你能见我 -欢迎
- How you doing? Thank you for having me. - Welcome.
-请进 -谢谢你