反同运动的前世今生（2020）

没有人会告诉你你是谁
and no one's gonna tell you who you are.
简直是天差地别
It's so different.
因为我在这个房♥间待了九年
'Cause I've spent nine years in this room,
在这段时间里我改变了太多
and I've changed so much in that time.
我跟以前完全不一样了
I'm nothing like what I was.
完全不一样了
Nothing.
拼图碎片要拼凑起来了
The puzzle pieces were coming together.
即使我对同性间的吸引有感觉
Even with the same-sex attractions in myself,
那种感觉从未消失过
those never went away.
这是改变吗？
Is that change, then?
因为之前我只是通过行动上定义改变
Because before I had been defining change on actions alone.
然后我就想： “那感觉真的消失了吗？”
Then I'm thinking, "Well, did that really go away?"
不！我只是改变了
No! I just changed
我和人们的关系
how-- what my connections with people were.
我只是避开了一些事情
And I just avoided things.
但我真的变了吗？
But did I really change?
该我走了
- -And I gotta move.
我会把自己归为双性恋
I would classify myself as bisexual.
我爱我的丈夫
I love my husband.
我已经结婚很久了
Been married for a long time.
然后我就知道了 我男女都可以
And then I knew, okay, then I have the capacity for both.
这两个性别都对我有吸引力
You know, I-- I'm attracted to both.
-该你了 -其实我可以用上这个
- There you go. -Actually, that kind of works out for me.
你作弊 因为今天是母亲节
You're cheating because it's Mother's Day.
对
Yep.
太棒了
Ugh! This is so great.
我知道！看起来真壮观
I know! Such a great view.
会很漂亮的
Wow. It's gonna be so gorgeous.
哇
Wow.
你们会作为夫妻走出去
You guys will walk out as a couple,
然后如果你们想在主圣坛 拍摄婚纱照的话
and then if you're thinking about doing formals at the high altar,
我们会把你们藏起来 然后让客人们离开
we'll stash you away, and then let your guests clear out.
鸡尾酒时间一到 你们就回来
When cocktail hour is in full swing, you'll come back up.
我的天啊！
-Oh my goodness! -Yeah.
你能帮我们拍张照吗？我们太兴奋了
Will you take a picture of us? We're just so excited.
-你想朝哪个方向？ -两个方向都拍！
-Which way do you wanna face? -We'll do both!
当我还在生命之光的时候
When I was still involved at Living Hope,
我非常沮丧
I was severely, severely, severely depressed,
但我不知道为什么 我会不知所措或悲伤
but I didn't know why I was overwhelmed or sad.
我一直觉得自己像个怪物
And I always felt like such a freak.
就好像“我出什么问题了？
Like, oh, like, "What's wrong with me?"
我完全是个疯子 灼烧并伤害我自己的身体”
"Like, I'm a total maniac, like, burning up and hurting my own body,"
这样那样的 因为我并没有把这些
and this and that, because I didn't see it
归因于是我周围的体制和文化
as a result of,xa0like, the system and the culture
让我讨厌我自己
around me that made me hate myself.
我一直相信上帝会帮助我过一种
I continued to believe that God will help me live a life
纯洁且神圣的生活
of purity and holiness.
我在出埃及大会上演讲过 在他们的博客上写过文章
I was speaking at Exodus conferences and doing writing on their blog,
我被视为运动的领导者
and I was seen as a leader within the movement.
凌志慧：我们的美国
2013年
在同性恋权利运动 获得开天辟地的进展时
xa0While the gay rights movement breaks historic ground,
凌志慧：我们的美国
2013年
凌志慧：我们的美国
2013年
前同性恋运动的叛逃者队伍
the ranks of defectors from the ex-gay movement,
凌志慧：我们的美国
2013年
凌志慧：我们的美国
2013年
就是所谓的“脱离前同性恋者”
so-called "ex-ex-gays,"
凌志慧：我们的美国
2013年
就是所谓的“脱离前同性恋者”
so-called "ex-ex-gays,"
也越来越声势浩大
are growing and growing louder.
前同性恋者 不可能！ 别相信他们说的话！
Ex-gay, no way! Don't believe a word they say! Ex-gay…
迈克尔布西在帮助他们 找到自己的声音
Michael Bussee is helping them find their voice.
在创立出埃及几十年后 他找到了新的使命
Decades after founding Exodus, he has found a new calling.
我几年前退休了 现在和那些
I retired a few years ago and now pretty much deal
从修复治疗项目出来的人打交道
with folks who come out of reparative therapy programs.
我在脸书上有几个在线小组
I have a couple of online groups I do on Facebook.
在过去的几十年里 我一直是一个坦率的前领导人
For the past several decades, I've been an outspoken former leader,
努力教育人们 让他们了解这些项目的危害
trying to educate people about the harm that these programs do
同时也在幸存者把真♥相♥说出来时 对他们给予支持
and also supporting survivors as they speak out.
如果有人离开 再也没有联络之后
If somebody left, we didn't hear from them again.
他们的内部讨论是这样的：
The way they were talked about internally was like,
“他们投靠了黑暗的一面 屈服了肉体”
"Oh, they've gone to the dark side, they've given in to the flesh."
就是这种疯狂的说法 他们走了 他们对我们来说已经死了
Just this kind of this crazy talk of like, they are gone. They are dead to us.
出埃及总是试图 与幸存者的故事保持距离
Exodus always tried to distance themselves from the stories of survivors.
他们想说：“哦 那些是异常情况
They tried to say, "Oh, those are the outliers."
是的 在每个组织中 都有一些人受到伤害
"Yeah, in every organization, there are some people who are harmed
或者…但那不是绝大多数人”
or who-- but that's not the vast majority of people."
但媒体开始关注起那些遭遇
But the pressxa0started picking up these stories
那些人们被前同性恋项目伤害的故事
of people that had been harmed by ex-gay programs.
这使得出埃及更难去忽视他们
That made it harder for Exodus to ignore them.
有一天我写了一篇博客文章
I wrote a blog post one day
要发表在出埃及的网站上
to publish on Exodus's site.
在最后 我跟前同性恋幸存者说
And I basically, toward the end of it, spoke to ex-gay survivors and said like,
“抱歉…
"I'm so sorry…"
很抱歉你经历了这些事情
"I'm so sorry that you went through this,
很抱歉 你处在现在的位置
and I'm so sorry that you didn't hear that God loves you, like, right now,
并没有感受到上帝的爱”
like exactly where you are."
最后我说： “希望有一天能听听你的故事”
I said at the end of it, "I hope someday I can hear your stories."
迈克尔布西找到了我
Michael Bussee reached out to me,
他说：“你说过你想去听 幸存者的故事
and he was like,xa0"You said you wanted to hear the stories of survivors."
我可以创建一个脸书群组 让大家进行某种交流”
"I can create a Facebook group for us to have some sort of exchange."
我就说 好啊 我真的想听
And so I was like, okay, like, I meant that.
75人同意参与进来
Seventy-five people agreed to be a part of it.
他们中很多人对我都很亲切
So many of them were really gracious to me,
考虑到我所代表的立场 以及和出埃及之间的关系
considering what I represented, being connected to Exodus.
他们也非常诚实地说 前同性恋所传达的观点
And yet they were very honest about how much ex-gay teaching
把他们的生活毁成了什么样子
had ruined their lives.
后来
What ends up happening is
淩志慧找到出埃及和迈克尔布西
Lisa Ling reaches out to Exodus
她说：“我听说了这个群组
and Michael Bussee and is like, "I heard about this group going on."
你们有没有兴趣在电视上播出？”
"Would y'all be interested in doing it on air?"
我当时是出埃及的主席
I was the president of Exodus at the time.
我觉得倾听他们的故事很重要
And I thought it was important that I listened to their stories.
他们汇集了一群人
They came upxa0with… with a group of people, um,
艾伦·钱伯斯
出埃及前主席
他们汇集了一群人
They came upxa0with… with a group of people, um,
艾伦·钱伯斯
出埃及前主席
其中一些人我有直接联♥系♥ 大多数人我都没有
some of whom I'd had direct contact with, most of whom I hadn't.
艾伦·钱伯斯
出埃及前主席
艾伦·钱伯斯
出埃及前主席
我们在一个教堂的地下室见面
We met in a church basement
经历了我经历过的
and had the most intense
最紧张的集体心理辅♥导♥
group therapy encounter that I have ever been through.
这里的每个幸存者都有不同的级别
Each survivor here comes
有些人刚出柜
from a different level. Some of them are fresh out.
有些人已经幸存了12年
Some of us have been surviving for 12 years,
会找机会跟你说： “我变成这样 你是有责任的
waiting for a moment to look at you and say, "You are responsible
因为你之前应该有机会 看到我们的伤口
because you've had opportunities to see our wounds before,
而你却什么都没做”
and you've not done anything about it."
讽刺的是
The irony of it is
我觉得我一直努力做正确的事 却丢失了灵魂
I feel I lost my soul in trying to do the right thing all the time.
不是因为做了错事 不是因为“屈服”
Not from doing the wrong thing, not from "giving in."
我丢失了灵魂 就因为我做了正确的事
I lost my soul because I did the right thing.
有些孩子们
And these kids,
选择了自杀
they're killing themselves
因为不断有人对他们说
because of things that continue to be said to them,
他们不够优秀
that they're not good enough,
他们本来的样子一点都不美
and that they're not beautiful as they are.
这些我都不能接受 我不能再保持沉默了
And I am not okay with that, and I can be silent no longer.
这绝对是毁灭性的 我认为对我来说
It was absolutely devastating, and I think for me, it was the first time