约翰·列侬谋杀案：审判疑云（2023）

这是美国大众第一次直接听见
It's the first time the American public has heard directly
约翰蓝侬凶杀犯的说法
from John Lennon's killer.
马克大卫查普曼从阿蒂卡监狱与我们连线
Mark David Chapman joins us from Attica Correctional Facility on this,
今天是约翰蓝侬去世12週年
the 12th anniversary of John Lennon's death.
马克,为什麽是现在? 为什麽你现在有话要说?
Mark, why now? Why tell the story now?
(有线电视新闻网)
赖瑞,我现在康复了
Well, Larry, I'm well now.
我已经康复了很多年
I've had a number of years of-- of wellness.
(约翰蓝侬凶杀犯,马克大卫查普曼)
我觉得很好
I feel good.
我心裡一直有一些想法和情绪想要抒发
There's always been things inside of me that I wanted to get out,
告诉大家我为何做了那件事
to tell people why I did what I did.
当时我非常迷惘
Back then, I was lost.
我不知道自己是谁,但现在我知道了
And I didn't know who I was, but now I do.
所以,你一定每天都后悔吧
Therefore, you have to have daily regrets.
我很后悔,我很抱歉做了那种事
I have regrets. I'm sorry for what I did.
现在我知道我真的终结了一个人的生命
I realize now that I really ended a man's life.
当时他对我来说只是一张专辑封面
Then, he was an album cover to me.
他并不存在,就连那天稍早我遇到他
He didn't exist, even when I met him earlier that day
他非常大方地帮我在专辑上签名时也是
when he signed the album for me, which he did very graciously.
对了,而且他并不做作,他很有耐心
And he was not a phony, by the way. He was very patient.
我只是把他视为...
I just saw him as a--
一个形象扁平的名人 - 好
as a two-dimensional celebrity... - Okay.
没有真正的情绪 - 是什麽治好...
...with no real feelings. - What cured
你的思觉失调症?
what you believe was schizophrenia?
不是药物也不是医生,而是上帝
Well, not medication and not doctors, but the Lord.
马克大卫查普曼以前自认很失败
Mark David Chapman was a failure in his own mind.
赖瑞,他想要成为重要的人
He wanted to become somebody important, Larry.
他不知道如何面对自己一无是处
He didn't know how to handle being a nobody.
在那些年,他想要成为重要的人
He tried to be a somebody through his years.
但随着他的病情逐渐恶化
But as he progressively got worse--
我相信我当时罹患思觉失调症
And I believe I was schizophrenic at the time.
没人能说我不是
No one can tell me I wasn't.
儘管我必须为此负责 马克大卫查普曼残忍♥地攻击了
Although I was responsible, Mark David Chapman struck out
他认为虚假的事物
at something he perceived to be phony,
使他愤怒的事物 为了成为不是他自己的人
something he was angry at, to become something he wasn't,
为了成为别人
to become somebody.
查普曼说他改头换面了
Chapman says he's a changed man,
他是重获新生的基♥督♥徒 为自己所做的事感到抱歉
a born-again Christian, sorry for what he did.
在入狱近20年后,这是第一次...
(2000年10月3日)
Now for the first time, and after almost 20 years in prison,
查普曼今天在假释委员会面前寻求自♥由♥
Chapman goes before the parole board today seeking his freedom.
小野洋子写信给假释委员会
Yoko Ono wrote to the parole board
她说:“要是查普曼获释 我和约翰的两个儿子西恩及朱利安
that "should Chapman be released, myself and John's two sons Sean and Julian
终生都无法感到安全”
would not feel safe for the rest of our lives."
马克大卫查普曼应该受到宽恕吗?
Should Mark David Chapman be forgiven?
我知道教宗曾经去监狱
I know that the pope went to the jail
去监狱探望,并宽恕了
and-- visited the jail and forgave this person
曾试图暗♥杀♥他的人,诸如此类的
who was trying to assassinate him, something like that.
但我不是教宗
But I'm not a pope.
而且要我原谅发生过的事 对我来说非常困难
And it's very difficult for me to forgive what happened.
这是马克大卫查普曼的 第三次假释委员会听证会
This is Mark David Chapman's third parole board hearing.
现在他49岁
He is now 49 years old
(2004年10月5日)
在阿蒂卡监狱坐牢近24年
an inmate at Attica State Prison for nearly 24 years.
查普曼从2000年起就有资格获得假释
Chapman has been eligible for parole since the year 2000
但每次机会都遭到驳回
and at every opportunity it's been denied.
我觉得很可怕,杀了披头四成员的人
I think it's just terrible that someone who killed a member of the Beatles
有可能会出狱
is going to potentially be let out of prison.
我还是会去看他
I do still see him.
他所受到的惩罚比许多人知道的还要严重
He's paid a bigger penalty than a lot of people realize
因为他必须在监狱裡过着与世隔绝的生活
because he's having to live in isolation in prison.
他甚至不能去礼拜堂做礼拜,因为担心
He can't even go to chapel services because of fear of harm
其他囚犯会伤害他
to him from other prisoners.
在任何其他情况下
Under any other circumstance,
他都会被当成一个精神失常者来受审
he would have been tried as an insane person.
当他说到他曾有过的挣扎及冲动
When he talked about the struggle and the compulsion that he had,
我们会称之为精神病
we'd call that a psychosis.
如果他枪杀的不是名人
If he had shot somebody who wasn't famous,
我认为他现在不会在牢裡,但他杀错人了
I don't think he'd be in prison today. But he shot the wrong man.
我完全相信他已经不再危险
I'm absolutely convinced that he's no longer dangerous.
试图杀害雷根总统的人
The man who tried to kill President Reagan,
他刚刚被释放,他被判定为精神失常
he just was released and he was judged to be insane.
小约翰辛克利由于精神失常
John Hinckley Jr. was found not guilty by reason of insanity
获判枪击雷根总统无罪
for the shooting of President Reagan.
小约翰辛克利将获释
John Hinckley Jr. will be freed
他坐牢了35年 获释后将跟他的母亲一起生活
after 35 years and released to live with his mother.
(警♥察♥,美国法警)
他在精神病院成功获得治疗
He was successfully treated in a psychiatric hospital
不再被视为对社会构成危险
and is no longer deemed a danger to society.
我今天来这裡是为了呼吁 纽约州假释委员会
I'm here today to call on the New York State Parole Board
(纽约州众议院)
驳回释放马克查普曼
to deny the release of Mark Chapman.
(假释委员会,别让我失望)
同时,马克查普曼仍在狱中
Mark Chapman meanwhile remains in prison
他获得精神治疗的机会有限
with limited access to psychiatric treatment.
我试着同情我所有的当事人
You know, I try to have compassion for all my clients,
不过有时这会比
you know, and sometimes that's--
其他情况下来得困难
that's harder to do than other times.
但我同情他
And I had compassion for him.
毕竟谁能解释一个人为何精神失常?
I mean, who could explain why somebody goes crazy?
我认为他并不想要...就是...
I mean, I don't think he wanted to c-- You know,
如果他能选择的话
if he'd had a choice,
我认为他不会选择要发疯,但他就是疯了
I don't think he would have chosen to be crazy, but he was, you know.
所以,因为这样,我同情他
And so I had compassion for him because of that.
约翰蓝侬在40几年前去世
John Lennon died over 40 years ago,
但他最后一次受访时说的话 至今仍能引起共鸣
but the words from that final interview still resonate today.
(1980年12月8日,约翰蓝侬最后访谈)
看来宇宙的深层意涵
Seemed like the underlying theme to the universe,
或一切有价值事物的深层意涵
or to everything that was worthwhile,
都根源于爱、爱、爱
got down to this love, love, love thing.
挣扎的是...
And it was the struggle to--
爱人、被爱和表达爱
to love, be loved, and express that.
爱有其奇妙之处
You know, there's something about love that's fantastic.
我想要儘可能地爱人
I want to be as loving as possible.
我依然想念他,尤其是现在,因为...
I still miss him, especially now, because of--
现在的世界不太好,大家似乎都在受苦
The world is not quite right and everybody seems to be suffering.
如果他在,情况应该会很...
And if he was here, it would have been difficult--
不一样
different, I think.
现在想到你的爸爸
When you think of your dad now,
你记得最美好的回忆是什麽?
what are the most wonderful memories that come up for you?
什麽会让你觉得
What is it that you really go,
“对,那就是我跟父亲感情的本质”?
"Yeah, that's the essence of my relationship with my father?"
我跟我父亲的片段 例如...我总是坐在他的大腿上
Footage of just me and my father, just like-- I'd always sit on his lap.
两个人在一起
You know, just being together.
因为当时就是那样,我们总是在一起
'Cause that was what it was like. We'd always be together.
我知道他在那裡,我知道他是我的父亲
You know, I just knew he was there, and I knew he was my father...
我知道我爱他
and I knew I loved him.
你觉得你♥爸♥爸最大的贡献是什麽?
What do you think your dad's biggest contribution was?
他的音乐影响了每个人
His music affected everybody,
几乎全世界的每个人
almost everybody in the entire world.
这很神奇,音乐能对人有如此影响
I mean-- And it's amazing, the impact that music can have on people.
那他对你的贡献呢?
And his contribution to you?
对我来说,他就是我的父亲
To me, he was my father.