BBC.墙上的艺术（2009）

joy in their collecting.
挖苦后现代主义之风
You don't hold with that, I presume.
我相信 你和他们不同
I don't do it for kitsch value.
我收藏不是因为这种世俗的价值
I do it for something much more deep-seated for me.
我收藏是出于更深层次的原因
One is kind of probably... I don't know...
其一是因为 我对我祖母本身
something related to my nan and her generation
以及她那一代人 朴素的价值观
and that kind of... uncomplicated generation.
并不甚了解
Yes, there's a kitsch element to it,
没错 这副画是有些媚俗的成分
but a lot more about social history in there as well.
但是它更大的价值 在于它承载着社会历史
I've got Green Lady by Tretchikoff on the wall.
我把切奇科夫的《绿色妇人》挂在墙上
I've always liked it as an image.
我一直很喜欢这幅画
I mean, to me,
对我而言
it's like an alternative Mona Lisa, if you like.
你可以说 她和蒙娜丽莎一样美
What I find really attractive about it is
它之所以吸引我 是因为
it belongs to a time
它是一个时代的印记
when people would buy these images
那时人们会不约而同地
en masse from Woolworths to put in their homes
去伍尔沃斯的大卖♥♥场 把这些画买♥♥回家
to make their homes have some style and some taste,
使家里的装饰更显品位 独具一格
and I think that's a sort of unselfconscious
我觉得这是我们自然而然地
relationship to art
与艺术产生的好感
which we don't really get anymore.
尽管我们对艺术一无所知
It makes it at home for me,
我觉得它很适合挂在家里
because that's the sort of picture you would see
因为《加冕街》里的人物家里
on someone's wall in Coronation Street.
大概就会挂上这样的画像
I like her face, and I like the colours in it,
我喜欢她的脸 以及这幅画的颜色
and I like her dress.
她的裙子也很漂亮
I don't know why she's green.
我倒是不明白她为什么是绿色的
Do you know why she's green?
你知道为什么吗
I can see the enduring
我看得出切奇科夫的作品
appeal of Tretchikoff,
有着经久不衰的魅力
but some of the 60s and 70s
但韦恩收藏的另一些
pictures in Wayne's collection
60和70年代的作品
are a bit iffy.
就有些让人不知所云了
I move you to the next genre that you champion,
我翻到你收藏的另一种题材
the white horses rushing through foam.
白马奔腾图
Yeah, now... No, Wayne, no.
是的 不怎样 韦恩 不好
I think the time to re-evaluate horses
我觉得 描绘骏马踏浪而奔的画
galloping through surf could be soon.
受追捧的时代 快要到来了
It could be coming back.
就快到了
Look at that, that's galloping through...
看看 这些奔腾的马...
Even upside down, Wayne, it's bringing a gag reflex.
韦恩 即便是倒着看 我都有点反胃
No. There's never a time, there'll never come a time.
不 你预感的那天 永远不会到来
I wonder what it was, though,
我在想马为何而奔
because this was a massive movement,
奔跑的景象如此宏伟
horses either galloping into heaven
无论是奔向天堂
or galloping through surf, was a massive thing.
或是踏浪奔跑的样子 都很壮观
Yes, a strange religious thing
群马奔向圣彼得之门
with horses queuing at St Peter's gate.
真是奇怪的宗教表现手法
I don't know what that was about,
我不知道这其中的具体含义
but the phobia about the horses
但我不喜欢马 是因为
comes from the fact that my parents had that,
我的父母也收藏了这样的作品
and I wonder the further you are away from popular art,
所以我觉得 你越欣赏这类画
the more you can appreciate it.
表明你离流行艺术越遥远
When it comes a little closer to home,
越有似曾相识的味道
it's a bit claustrophobic.
越显得目光短浅
The other thing that gets a little bit dodgy
还有一类收藏 也有点冒险
is the big-eyed kids.
就是这些大眼睛的孩子
There's basically an orphan with a thyroid complaint.
这些只不过是甲状腺有问题的孤儿
But there's so much of this stuff,
但是画中隐含的意义太多了
and I think it was all about the...
我觉得这幅画的重点是
big eyes look sad, and so you'd go,
那眼中流露的悲伤 会勾起你的怜悯之心
"Oh, look at that thing on your wall."
说"看看墙上那幅画呀"
I'm not into art, you know?
我并不是很懂艺术
I'm not really a picture person,
也不很喜欢买♥♥画
I like plain walls, you know?
我其实是喜欢干净的墙面的
That picture there was hanging on the wall
墙上的那张画以前挂在
in my friend's house on the Isle of Wight,
怀特岛我朋友的
she got a bungalow,
小平房♥里
and every time I went there, I used to admire it,
每次我前往 都很喜欢这幅画
because the children
因为画中的孩子
reminded of my own little grandchildren.
让我想起我自己的小外孙们
And one time they said they was coming up to see me,
有一次他们说要来拜访我
and they came up to see me,
他们来了之后
and he said, "Here, I've bought you a present,"
他说"给 我给你买♥♥了个礼物"
and that's what it was.
就是这幅画
And I always thought it was two little boys
我一直以为画中是两个小男孩
until I looked at it,
因为我不正好有两个外孙嘛
'cos I had two little boys, didn't I?
后来我仔细看才发现
But one's a girl.
有一个是女孩
I think it's nice, I think it's lovely, the children,
我觉得这画很漂亮 孩子们很可爱
the way their little faces are
他们的小脸
looking at the fire, you know, at the flames.
望着火苗 看着火焰
And yeah, I think it's an interesting picture myself.
我自己觉得这很有趣
Taste in art is a deeply personal thing.
人们对艺术的欣赏各有不同 甚至差之千里
It's taken me the best part of 40 years
过去的四十年里 我花费了好些时光
to work out what I like.
来弄清楚 我到底喜欢什么
As far back as I can remember,
从我记事以来
I've had a problem with landscapes.
我对风景画就没有什么好感
This is what many people consider to be real art -
很多人将风景画视为真正的艺术
a beautiful scene from nature.
它是大自然美丽的剪影
But for me, sunsets and beach scenes just don't do it.
但我对日落沙滩 就是不感冒
Maybe it's something to do with my background.
也许这和我的成长经历有关
I suppose all of us have
我们个人品味的形成
had our tastes shaped by where we grew up -
都受到成长环境的影响
in my case it was the concrete,
比如我 生长于克罗伊登高楼林立的
brutalist paradise of Croydon.
野兽派风格的建筑群之中
So, this is the heartlands - this is downtown Croydon -
这是中心区 克罗伊登的市中心
twinned with Mordor.
和魔都很相似
This is my old stomping ground.
我以前经常来这
Perhaps that's why I don't get landscapes.
也许这就是我不欣赏风景画的原因
This is a very important piece of art in my family.
这件艺术品对我家来说 非常重要
And the reason it's important is my dad chose it.
之所以重要 是因为这是我爸买♥♥回来的
My dad doesn't choose anything.
我父亲从不买♥♥任何东西
My dad was brought up in Southeast London,
他是在伦敦东南部长大的
one of eight kids.
兄弟姐妹共8人
In the war, saw nothing but brick dust
战争年代里 只有砖灰 死亡
and death and deprivation.
清贫的生活
For me, it's a rather murky, dispiriting scene.
在我看来 这是一片浑浊而阴郁的景象
For him, it's really aspirational,
但是对他而言 却是他梦寐以求的
it's beautiful, poetic.
美好而充满诗意的画作
It's other-worldly.
如此远离尘嚣
It just shows how one image
这也说明 同样一幅画
can create two completely divergent responses.
可以产生两种截然不同的观后感
He loved it enough to choose it -
他因喜爱而购买♥♥了这幅画
above and beyond anything. He never chooses anything.
胜过任何事物 他从不买♥♥任何东西
I think he's got maybe a Dennis Wheatley
他也许买♥♥过一本丹尼斯·威特利的小说
and a couple of books by David Coleman about sporting gaffes.
和几本大卫·科尔曼揭露体育界丑闻的书
That's it. That's culturally his landscape.
仅此而已 他的文化涉猎就这么多
And this.
再加上这幅画
So for all that I...
总而言之
It doesn't mean anything to me in terms of an image.
对我来说 这幅画不具有任何审美价值
Emotionally I'm quite attached to it because
但是我又对它很有感情
I love my dad and my dad chose it.
因为我爱我父亲 而这是他买♥♥的
So it's quite a fraught little piece, this one.
这真是件让人纠结的小作品
Love-hate.
让人欢喜让人愁
I can see that for my parents' generation,
我看得出来 对于我父母那一代人来说
art could offer a window into a world they didn't inhabit.
艺术是他们了解外面世界的窗口
In 1951, the Festival of Britain
1951年 英国艺术节
attempted to kick-start a new era of art and design
尝试在二战后 开启一个
in the aftermath of World War Two.
艺术与设计的新纪♥元♥