传奇字体（2007）

It needs to have that orange plastic Olivetti typewriter, Roman Holiday espresso feeling.
你绝对知道我在说什么 -对的
I know you got exactly what I was saying. - I did.
如果不借助于外在的事物 我们就很难描述字体的特性
But it's that there's really no way to describe the qualitative parts of a typeface without resorting to things are fully outside it.
我们经常这样讲：你看 这有点萨蒂（十九世纪法国作曲家）的感觉
And we're constantly saying, You know, this has that, it feels kind of Erik Satie;
它应该是德彪西（十九世纪法国作曲家）的感觉
it needs to be Debussy.
或者 这看上去有点像背带裤
Or this has a kind of belt and suspenders look.
它应该 嗯 更优雅一点... 手工做的鞋一样的感觉
It needs to be, you know, much more elegant... hand-lasted shoe.
我已经收集这些标牌好些年了
I've been collecting these signs for a couple of years now
我最喜欢的是这些标牌 这样的我有好多
and one of my favorites is these signs. I have a number of these.
这就是纽约街道上的标牌以前的样子
This is what the street signs in New York City used to look like.
它实际上看起来更清晰
This actually functions so much more clearly
比我们现在在街上看到的要更高效
and so much more effectively than what we see out on the street now.
现代主义经典理论认为
The sort of classical modernist line on
一个读者对待字体的方式应该是：
how aware a reader should be of a typeface is that
读者根本不应该意识到字体的存在
they shouldn't be aware of it at all.
它应该像一个水晶的高脚杯
It should be this crystal goblet
只是放置 展示和组织信息的一个容器
there to just hold and display and organize the information.
但我想实际情况并没有那么简单
But I don't think it's really quite as simple as that.
我想即使他们在阅读时没有意识到字体的存在
I think even if they're not consciously aware of the typeface they're reading,
他们还是会受到字体的影响
they'll certainly be affected by it.
就像安排不适当的演员在剧中演出会影响观众的观看体验一样
The same way that an actor that's miscast in a role will affect someone's experience
当然他们一样能看明白电影或戏剧的情节
of a movie or play that they're watching. They'll still follow the plot,
但是 你知道 他们会更难以相信、激动、或感动
but, you know, be less convinced or excited or affected.
Gotham 字体
托比亚斯·弗里尔-琼斯，2002 年
我认为文字设计的情形与之类似
I think that typography is similar to that,
设计师挑选字体实质上就像是一个导演在挑选角色
where the designer choosing typefaces is essentially a casting director.
在我的世界里 很少有不能使用的字体
There's very little type in my world outside of work.
和其他人一样 我发觉字体在我们周围无处不在
Like everybody else I'm aware of fonts being used in my environment.
你知道 有人嘲笑说平面设计师不能看历史题材的影片
You know, the standing joke that graphic designers can't see historical movies
因为里面的字体使用经常是错误的 这个笑话其实是真的
because the fonts are always wrong is certainly true.
外面的世界和工作室内真的很不一样
It definitely makes the world outside the office very different.
有一次 我和未婚妻想要记住我们家附近一个饭店的位置
My fiancée and I were trying to remember the location of a restaurant in our neighborhood,
她记的是那家饭店
and she remembered it as that new place
离干洗店有几个街区
that's just a couple blocks down from the dry cleaner.
而我记的是
I remembered it as that new place just a couple blocks down from
它离那个字间距很糟糕的路牌有几个街区
the place with the bad letter spacing out front.
没有人不知道 Helvetica 是什么
Nobody doesn't know what Helvetica is,
我的意思是 在我职业生涯之初 还没人用 PC 或 Mac
I mean, at the beginning of our careers certainly before anybody had a PC or a Mac,
没有人知道字体是什么
no one knew what fonts were.
但我想即使在那时人们也知道什么是 Helvetica
I think even then people might have known what Helvetica was.
它能够获得如此广泛的授权
The fact that it's been so heavily licensed
以一种如此平民化的技术形式面向大众
and made available through these very populist technologies
也说明了 在某种程度上它作为终极字体的神话还将延续下去
has kind of furthered the mythology that it's the ultimate typeface in some way.
即便是在我们这些专业人士圈内 也无可避免
And even for us professionals that's hard to escape from.
我发现自己开始有些相信这个说法：
I kind of find myself buying into the idea that
“哦 无衬线字体的百年演变
"Oh, the sans-serif evolved for a hundred years
其终极表现就是 Helvetica”
and the ultimate expression was Helvetica."
然后意识到 等一下 这好像不太对 无论从历史上
And realizing, wait a minute that's not quite true, historically
美学上 文化上 还是政♥治♥上都说不过去
or aesthetically or culturally or politically.
但是它确实给人一种“无衬线字体的最终形式”的感觉
But there's something about it that does have the feeling of finality to it,
这是我对这款字体理解的一个总结
This is the conclusion of one line of reasoning with this typeface,
任何在它之后的东西 在某种意义上来说可能永远只能是第二
and perhaps everything after it is secondary in some way.
艾瑞克·斯毕克曼
我绝对是一个字体狂热者 一种不治之症 如果它不是致命的
I'm obviously a typomaniac, which is an incurable, if not mortal, disease.
我不能解释这些 我只是喜欢 我就是喜欢看着这些字体
I can't explain it I just love, I just like looking at type,
我从中获得了太多的乐趣 它们是我的朋友 你懂的
I just get a total kick out of it. They are my friends. You know.
其他人喜欢看瓶中的美酒 或者你懂的... 女孩的臀部
Other people look at bottles of wine or whatever, or... you know, girls' bottoms,
我从看字体中享受乐趣
I get kicks out of looking at type.
是有点烦人 我必须承认 这样子做是很书呆子气的
It's a little worrying I must admit, it's a very nerdish thing to do.
我是一个非常多话的人
I'm very much a word person.
所以字体设计对我来说很明显是一种延伸
So that's why typography for me is the obvious extension.
它使我的话语变得可见
It just makes my words visible.
一款真正的字体需要韵律 需要对比 字体来源于于书写
A real typeface needs rhythm, needs contrast; it comes from handwriting.
这就是我可以读懂你写的字 你可以读懂我的的原因
And that's why I can read your handwriting, and you can read mine.
我很清楚我们的书写与 Helvetica
And I'm sure our handwriting is miles away from Helvetica
或者和任何可以清晰辨认的字有很大的差别
or anything that would be considered legible.
我们可以读它是因为它富有韵律 在它其中存在着对比
But we can read it because there's a rhythm to it, there's a contrast to it.
上述这些东西 Helvetica 丝毫没有
Helvetica hasn't got any of that.
（为什么它在五十年后仍旧如此流行？）
Why fifty years later it's still so popular?
我不知道 为什么糟糕的品位无处不在？
I don't know. What is bad taste ubiquitous?
不 实际上 Helvetica 在当时是一款好的字体
No, actually, Helvetica was a good typeface at the time.
它确实适应了当时的需求
It really answered a demand.
但是现在它成为了一种默认选择
But now it's become one of those defaults that,
部分是因为电脑的发展 到现在已经 20 年了
partly because of the proliferation of the computer, which is now twenty years,
我指的是个人电脑
the PC I mean.
它是苹果系统的默认字体 然后 Windows 系统也是
You know, it was the default on the Apple Macintosh and then it became the default on Windows
微软抄袭了苹果的一切 你知道的
which copied everything that Apple did, as you know.
从界面到其他所有的一切 然后他们制♥作♥了一个克隆版本：Arial
Interface and everything else, and then they did the clone version, Arial,
比 Helvetica 还烂
which is worse than Helvetica
但达到了同样的目的 现在它很可能再也不会消失了
but fills the same purpose I think. Now it's probably never going to go away
因为它无处不在 它是默认项 它是空气
because it's ubiquitous; it's a default. It's air,
你知道 它已经成为现实 让我们别无选择
you know, it's just there. There's no choice.
你必须要呼吸 所以你必须要使用 Helvetica
You have to breathe, so you have to use Helvetica.
它有自己的风格 其他字体也是如此
It brings style with it; every typeface does.
它有某种...
It has a certain...
就像一个人 如果你腰腹比较粗
well, it's like a person, if you are slightly heavy in the middle
你就不会穿着紧身T恤到处走你看上去会像个傻子
you're not going to walk around in tight T-shirts. You'd look like an idiot.
Helvetica 也有它的缺陷 所以它需要某种...
And Helvetica is heavy in the middle. So it has a certain...
它的周围需要留有空间 需要很多的空白
it needs certain space around it, needs a lot of white space;
在磅数的选择上需要非常的谨慎
it needs very carefully to be looked at the weight gradations.
它的两边也需要许多空间
It needs a lot of space sideways also.
然后它就变得能清晰易读 但是
Then it's very legible, but
如果把它设置得很小、很紧凑 或者像某些现代设计师那样设置得很细
very small and very tightly done and very lightly as modern designers do,
那就是一场噩梦 完全是一场噩梦
it's a nightmare, a total nightmare.
如果我没有尝试过 我不会这样说
I wouldn't say this if I hadn't tried it.
因为它所有的字母... 完全是瑞士的理念
You know... Because all the letters... it's the whole Swiss ideology;
设计它的人想把每个字母设计成一模一样
the guy who designed it tried to make all the letters look the same.
拜托？？？你知道吗 那叫做军队 不是人
Hello??? You know, that's called an army. That's not people.
那是一群戴着他♥娘♥的♥一模一样头盔的人
That's people having the same fucking helmet on.
它不鼓励任何的个人主义
It doesn't further individualism.
然而字体设计的目标总是把字体变得足够的个性化
And the aim with type design always is to make it individual enough
这样它才是有趣的
so that it's interesting.
当然任何字体 95% 的部分必须和其他字体看上去一样
But of course ninety-five percent of any alphabet has to look like the other alphabet
否则你就没法读懂它
otherwise you wouldn't be able to read it.
Meta 字体
艾瑞克·斯毕克曼，1991 年
我从未一觉醒来就想出一款新的字体
I've never sort of woken up with a typeface coming out,
你知道 像某些人那样... “我不得不这样做” 然后走到他们的...
you know, like some people... I've got to do this, and they go to their,
随便什么 比如画板前 画出那些神奇的笔划
whatever, their easel, and these amazing brush strokes.
我没有那种冲动 你知道吗 我醒来的时候还经常想回去睡
I don't have that urge. You know, I wake up and usually I want to go back to sleep.
我的意思是 每个人都在作品中体现自己的个人经历
I mean, everybody puts their history into their work.
我很清楚我在画东西的时候
I certainly know that when I draw something it has
我很快 我很吵 我乱来一气
I'm fast, I'm loud, I'm chaotic,
我不太按规则办事 虽然我是德国人并且我喜爱规则
I'm not very rule based, even though I'm German and I love rules,
我是双子座 昨天刚过生日 所以本质上我非常散漫
I'm a Gemini, I had my birthday yesterday, so I'm all over the place essentially.
我永远守时 但那是在一年之后 你知道我的意思
I'm always on time, but a year late, you know what I mean,
但那时我就是分秒必争了
but then I'm on the second.
所以在我设计的字体里面会出现那些可怕的东西
So I have this horrible thing, which comes out in my typefaces.
它们从不会是完美的 它们总有些缺陷
They're never perfect. They always have a little edge
因为当我厌倦它们的时候我就把它们丢在一边
in the sense that I leave them alone when I get bored with them.
我知道有些人恨我 他们再过一百万年也不会用我的字体
I know there's people who hate me, who would never use one of my typefaces in a million years
但反过来 有些人会用我设计的每一款字体
and vice versa, people who would use any typeface I design
不是因为它们很好 或者因为它们能满足某种需求
not because it's good for them or it fits the purpose,
仅仅因为是我设计了它们
simply because I did it.
我认为我们都是这样的 有一个乐队 我买♥♥他们所有的 CD
I think we alI do that. Certain bands I buy every CD from them;
其中有些很烂
some of them are crap.
但我买♥♥它 因为我总是买♥♥他们的 CD
But I buy it because I've always bought their CDs
或者他们的音乐
or their music.
为什么人们固定地购买♥♥某些东西？品牌消减了人们的选择面
Why do people buy certain things? The brand rubs off on them.
字体也是一个品牌
And typefaces are a brand.
你用一种特定的“字体排印的声音”告诉“听众”这是属于你们的
You're telling an audience, This is for you, by using a certain typographic voice.
你在两英里开外就能认出万宝路的广♥告♥牌
You'd recognize a Marlboro brand two miles away