漫威电影宇宙：集结（2021）

because he thinks it's very needed right now.
世界支离破碎
The world's broken.
所有人都在期望有个人去修补它
Everybody's just looking for somebody to fix it.
唐·钱德尔还没到片场就在和我讨论过好几次角色
Don Cheadle and I discussed the role a few times before he got here.
他真的很想赋予角色一些东西
And he really wanted to bring something to the character,
我们聊了很多 因为他的角色
and we talked a lot about, then, also, the one guy
是那个能真正明白
who could really understand the complexity
作为黑人肩负盾牌有多复杂的人
of what it is for a Black man to carry the shield.
他和山姆在这个层面是可以互相理解的
He is the one guy who Sam could connect with on that level,
这也是两个角色之间非常复杂的一种关系
and, so that became a really complex dance between the two guys.
对我来说 看着这两个人走过漫威宇宙版本的史密森博物馆里
You know, for me, watching the two of them go through this amazing history
所记载的令人惊叹的历史
we shot in our version of the Smithsonian,
也就是咆哮突击队
which was the history of the Howling Commandos
和美国队长的历史
alongside Captain America,
看着他们走过这段被我们遗忘的历史令人心酸
and it was so poignant to see them walking through the history
这让我们所有人都打了寒颤
as we're putting that history to bed, you know, it was giving us all chills.
我认为漫画这个表达形式中
I think something the comics do,
有种一贯做法
which works for that medium,
那就是衣钵必须传承
is they assume that a mantle has to exist.
美国队长必须存在
Of course there's gonna be a Captain America.
如果史蒂夫出了事 就得有人接过盾牌
If something happens to Steve, somebody's gotta pick up that shield.
这是一场非常漫画的表达方式
That's a very, you know, comic book-true statement
也很适合漫画 非常棒
and it works for that format, and it's great,
你可以看着那块盾牌代代相传
and it allows you to see that shield pass through hands.
但是 如果不是漫画 而是真人剧集里的现实历史
However, when you translate that to a live-action sort of grounded story,
乃至于我们的现实世界
and to our real world,
你必须去问 为什么
it's really important to ask the question of why.
为什么必须有一个美国队长
Why does there have to be a Captain America?
美国队长今天的意义 对比角色在40年代
What does it mean today versus what it meant
被创作出来时的意义 是什么
when it was created in the '40s?
对不同人群的意义 又是什么
And what does it mean to different people?
再次捡起盾牌
Feels weird...
感觉很奇怪
Picking it up again.
那块盾牌传承的意义说复杂都是轻了
The legacy of that shield is complicated, to say the least.
山姆 既是士兵 又是退伍老兵
MACKIE: Sam, you know, being a soldier and being a veteran,
又是顾问 他知道 作为人♥民♥ 我们都是美国人
being a counselor, he realizes that as a people, we're all Americans.
我不是黑人美国队长
I'm not Black Captain America.
史蒂夫也不是白人美国队长
Steve wasn't white Captain America.
他就只是美国队长
He was solely Captain America.
作为一个社会 一个国家 我们必须意识到
So as a society, as a country, we need to realize
这片土地上的所有公民
that all the people who are citizens here on this soil,
不管他们是什么人种 都是美国人
no matter what their origins are, they're Americans
那句话说的好 "我是同胞弟兄的守护人"
and, you know, the old adage, "I am my brother's keeper,"
我们要做到那句话
comes into play, you know.
山姆意识到 他有权
Sam realizes he deserves the right,
也赢得了成为美国队长的权利
he's earned the right to be Captain America
这和他的种族和背景无关
and that has nothing to do with his race or his background.
我不骗你 你很特别
I ain't gonna lie. You're special.
谢谢
Thank you.
你比不上马尔科姆 或者马丁 曼德拉 但
I mean, you ain't no Malcolm or Martin, Mandela, but...
那是无可辩驳 但我知道我该怎么做
No argument there, but I know what I've gotta do.
艾赛亚·布拉德利这个角色
MOORE: Isaiah Bradley is a character, I think,
漫画粉期待已久
comic fans have been clamoring for,
但大部分粉丝并不认识 他是黑人士兵
but most fans won't know. he was a Black soldier who,
就像电影《塔斯克基飞行队》里一样
much like the Tuskegee Airmen,
作为复♥制♥超级士兵血清的实验对象
was tested on to try and recreate the super-soldier serum.
艾赛亚·布莱德利的秘密是 血清生效了
The secret of Isaiah Bradley is that it worked,
但也因为他是黑人
but because of his race, he was sidelined
他被美国政♥府♥排斥 被社会遗弃
by the American government and became a pariah.
你以为你能某天突然醒来 然后想成为谁就能成为谁吗
You think you can wake up one day and decide who you wanna be?
不是那样的
It doesn't work like that.
如果你有山姆·威尔逊和巴基·巴恩斯这样
When you have two characters like Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes,
和史蒂夫亲密的角色
who are so close to Steve,
遇到一个和美国队长经历非常不一样的超级士兵
to meet a Super Soldier who had a completely different experience
这对山姆对那块盾牌的感情
than the one that Captain America had, is gonna be eye-opening
冲击是非常大的
and very much informs Sam's feelings surrounding the shield.
无论那种冲击是否是他所希望的
Whether or not that's a legitimate thing to wish for or to not.
包里是那东西吗
That what I think it is?
别打开
Leave it covered.
上面的星星和条纹对我来说没什么好意义
Them stars and stripes don't mean nothin' good to me.
我们一开始和马尔科姆讨论的时候
When we first started talking with Malcolm,
这是他最先问起的角色
that was a character he asked about first
因为作为黑人漫画读者
because, as a Black man reading comics,
这是让他产生共鸣的故事
that was a story that resonated with him
这个故事就是《真理:红,白和黑》
when you go back to Truth: Red, White and Black.
这个就是促成他加入剧组的动力之一
So it was something that he really brought to the project
我觉得这也丰富了叙事
and I think enriched the story-telling,
因为这是常常被遗忘的一种视角
'cause it's a point of view that is often lost,
而且不幸的是 社会有时候会赶上这种叙事
and again, unfortunately, society sometimes catches up with narrative.
现在这是我们日常生活中经常会讨论的东西了
It's something that we're talking about very much in our everyday lives.
美国不同历史时期 作为黑人会经历什么
What is the journey of being Black in America through time?
不只是当代
Not even just in the modern days,
而是四五十年代
but in the '40s, in the '50s.
那是非常不一样的经历
It's always been quite a different journey.
这就能从一个非常有意思的角度折射出那个时代和角色
And this gets to be an interesting lens into that time and that character,
这对人们今天种族观影响也是很大的
which very much informs how people feel about race today.
我曾经和你一样
I used to be like you,
直到我睁开了双眼
until I opened my eyes,
直到我看到那些红色机尾战斗机的驾驶员
until I saw men in the Red Tails,
著名的为国家浴血奋战的332战斗机中队
the famous 332 fight for this country,
回家后却发现自家草坪上被人焚烧十字架
only to come home to find crosses burned on their lawn.
我也是南方人 我明白
I'm from the south. I get that.
但你曾是和史蒂夫一样的超级士兵 你本来可以成为下一个的
But you were a Super Soldier like Steve. You could've been the next...
下一个什么 什么啊
The next? What? Huh?
金发蓝眼 身穿星条旗图案
Blonde hair, blue eyes, stars and stripes?
他成为了你的英雄的恐惧的象征
He becomes the embodiment of your hero's fears.
艾赛亚挑战了
Isaiah is challenging Sam
山姆关于黑人能不能成为美国队长的观念
just on whether or not a Black man should be Captain America.
他有一句台词 "他们绝对不会让黑人成为美国队长
He has that line where, "They will never let a Black man be Captain America,
就算他们让 有自尊心的黑人也绝对不会愿意的"
"and even if they did, no self-respecting Black man would ever wanna be."
我们不希望艾赛亚的想法错了
We didn't want Isaiah to be wrong about that.
这是他的斗争的一部分
That's gonna be part of his ongoing struggle.
他说 "兄弟 我知道我每次捡起那块盾牌
He says, "Man, I know every time I pick the shield up,
世界上都将有人因此憎恨我"
"a portion of the world's gonna hate me for it."
山姆若想尝试成为美国队长 就必须忍♥受那压力
Sam gotta live with that as he goes off and tries to make this work.
这段经历非常动人
It's been an emotional experience,
尤其是我们当今这个时代
especially in the time in which we live in now.
漫威给了黑人 一个来自南方的黑人
For Marvel to give me the opportunity as a Black man,
成为美国队长的机会
from the south, to become Captain America,
我认为意义非凡 不仅仅是说我为这个角色赋予了
I think, says a lot, not only about the work that I've put in
很多心血 所以他们愿意把美国队长的头衔托付给我
to get to this point that they would entrust me with that,
他们也是希望改变社会看待自身的态度
but the way that they're hoping to change the way society looks at itself.
你们这些人的权力就像失去理智的上帝
Look, you people have just as much power as an insane god
或误入歧途的青少年一样大
or a misguided teenager.
问题在于你们要扪心自问 你要如何使用那权力
The question you have to ask yourself is, "How are you gonna use it?"
山姆最后的演讲
That last speech that Sam has,
我和安东尼打了好几个小时的电♥话♥讨论
that's me and Anthony on the phone for a few hours.
安东尼有作为黑人看待世界的角度
Anthony has a Black man's perspective on the world.
他说 马尔 我必须说出能让自己信服的台词 对吧
And he's like, "Mal, I gotta believe this, right?"
所以我们做的第一件事就是
So the first thing we did was
让山姆在那个场景和别人说话
we had Sam talking to somebody in that scene
而不是演讲
instead of giving a speech.
然后接下来我就和他讨论了几个小时
And then, the next thing was me on the phone with him for hours
确保每句台词都是他的切身感受
making sure he felt honest at every single line in this thing.
明白我意思吗 我们对此非常自豪
You know what I'm saying? So now we are super proud of that.
我们终于有共同的斗争了
We finally have a common struggle now.
好好想想
Think about that.
所有那些恳求你的人 他们真的是在求你了
For once, all the people who've been begging,
他们的日子何其艰难
and I mean, literally begging for you
这一次你也终于能有所体会
to feel how hard any given day is, now you know.
最后那套战衣从漫画中汲取了很多灵感